9 Steps to Socialism...WARNING! Opinion Article

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Events' started by TexasPalladin, Mar 17, 2019.

  1. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    padrehorn11 likes this.
  2. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I don't think he's wrong in any of his premises. But...after reading it thorough once, I have a first impression sense that it's just far too...simple. But then I tend to be a wordy wonk. But there is so much more that happens along the road. Ahhhh...that's it. My subconscious knew what I was trying to say. A couple of years ago I read again"The Road to Serfdom", and I was subconsciously putting it into that context

    So of course, in comparison... but obviously that's not what this author was trying to distill into a couple of pages. And his thrust was more focused, more in relation to a few obvious current happenings germane to us, right here, right now..

    I'm tired and not thinking well. Maybe tomorrow afternoon, after I've read this article again. I'll be able to get my thoughts into some sort of order and be able to contribute a few more thoughts without quoting the whole 250 or so pages of Hayek's work. ;)

    P.S. The first time I read the Road to Serfdom, I was in my late 20's. For some reason, back in the late 60's-early 70's teachers and professors weren't putting it on reading lists or discussing it. Go figure.

    It was about the time Margaret Thatcher was beginning try to to roll back the postwar socialism of England, and when Ronald Reagan was about to at least make a start on reforms in the U.S. that I first read it. It's very possible that something I read Margaret Thatcher say got me to read it. Anyway, I took it with me and hiked about 12 miles back into the Rio Grande Wilderness between Chama, New Mexico and Antonito, Colorado. I fly-fished, thought, slept and read that book. For six days (I think, maybe only five) I saw two hikers and we said hi. And that was all my human contact until I hiked down to my truck. Anyway. I not only read the book, I read it slowly and pondered it in parts as I stayed camped on a bit of a promontory 30-40 feet above a clear mountain stream. I'd wake, and see a trout in the pool below, and go fool it with a dry fly, and that was breakfast. And then I'd read...Because I had time...and nothing but the grand, vast, skies and mountains...and freedom... of the high Rockies to allow me to really think. Anyway I guess much of my political/economic philosophy and the core of much of what I've believed ever since--about the path countries can take and why they willingly take that path into the serfdom of socialism and the authoritarianism it eventually results in becoming--came from that book, at that time, in that place.

    So. Goodnight. Look forward to maybe some more discussion tomorrow.

    Padre,
    being brief. :)LOL
     
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  3. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    ***Crickets***

    I will get back to a post on this but I've been doing some pondering and looking up a couple of things and getting trusty calculator to divide a few numbers for me.

    So far the result of my calculations is that it doesn't add up to do socialism halfway...but it works if the whole world goes to one government and 100% Socialism.

    Except as soon as you allow for any actual real human behavior it all falls part. And then it gets really, really bad.

    Until you reduce the living human population to a few thousand hunter-gatherers. Then it works.

    Well, you have to do things like send the Olds and and anyone infirm out into the bush to feed the lions...and tigers...and bears. Oh my!

     
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  4. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I was just amazed that you were in the wilderness between Antonito and Chama, and were reading some book about socialism. I would have just enjoyed listened to the...crickets! Or the elk whistling, depending upon the time of year.

    The current freak-out buzzword on the right is "socialism", but with a few notable exceptions, most Dems don't want anything like government takeover of industries.
     
    Burnt Orange likes this.
  5. U.S. Bates

    U.S. Bates Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I think the freak out is due to some of those “notable exceptions” are teed up for the 2020 election vs an unpopular incumbent.

    If it were just fringe people in your party, like AOC or someone else who had no chance at becoming the next president, i think most on the right would ignore that kind of talk.
     
  6. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    LOL.
    Well, actually, I listen with my ears, so that kind of leaves my eyes free to even read. But I did a lot of just nothing but listening too. I mean five days and nights, no people, I purposely took no music...nothing else but the sounds of nature. As for the crickets...well if you're ever stuck in the wilderness with nothing to eat, and all you've got are a fish hook and some line...crickets make pretty good bait if you can catch one. Or...you can eat the cricket if you don't have a fish hook and line, though I can't personally imagine being that ill-prepared

    I wonder how many crickets are left in Venezuela?;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  7. Shane3

    Shane3 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    So are we about 6 steps in?
     
  8. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    i don't think there is a specific order as much as there is a gradual erosion of individual freedoms and liberties utilizing every means possible from indoctrination in our public schools and universities, stifling free speech/opposing views (ie, Group Think) and introducing programs that "Promise everything for nothing" (Free Stuff). The tipping point is when it reaches the point where over 50% of the population becomes dependent on the government.
    We are being told the wealth is evil, that capitalism is bad and that they only solution is a larger and more powerful government.

    Any serious student of history who looks at the United States today will say that short of remedial actions that it is on a trajectory to becoming a "Socialist State".
    We no longer celebrate rugged individualism, personal responsibility and self reliance.
    Instead we are told that we have to conform, that the reason we don't succeed is because "Big Business" is keeping us down and that we need to depend on the government for our happiness and well being.
    We are becoming a society of the "victimized" consumed with perceived grievances, and the belief that America is a evil, racist, misogynistic and oppressive country instead of the one place in the world that one has the ability to dream...and have the liberty/freedom and opportunity to actually make them come true.
    The signs are all there.
    But more than a few folks refuse to actually do a little homework and actually look around and see what is happening.

    A couple of things the article neglected to point to:
    The Press.....When the press becomes captive to a political ideology, actively participates in the narrative and promotes a agenda (Regardless of type, Socialism, Fascism, Democracy, etc) instead of being a unbiased, objective and honest chronicler of the facts and events? The path to complete and unchallenged power becomes much more attainable. Currently, except for a small percentage of sources, the Press is composed primarily composed of extreme left people who are actively pushing and supporting people like Booker, Sanders and Warren and of endorsing/enabling the agendas of the extreme left. And before you scream FOX!!! Hip, JG and the usual suspects....95%+ of the "Press" identifies as Democrat...and that is not good as the Press needs to be composed of people of all persuasions and stripes. Most of the Big 3, MSNBC, CNN,etc will refuse to hire anyone except those who believe as they do...The few "Conservatives" they do hire as a foil are tepid, timid imitations without voice, depth or impact. How a story is reported has the potential to create more damage, foster hate and divisiveness, and do more harm than good...And in the name of clicks/faces and profits our Press today is guilty of doing so.

    The Government has become a "Professional Class" instead of a Call to Service.....
    We elected a new Congressman in my district this last election. Prior to that the seat had been held by a father and son for 60 years. "Kennedy Seat" anyone?
    We have people in both parties who have made politics a career...They are no longer there to serve the people regardless of the rhetoric. Our politicians today by and large no longer feel that they actually answer to the people, rather they are beholden to the Party. Someone like AOC can get elected and over the course of a decade will become a millionaire, with their only true accomplishment being that they got elected and voted along party lines. Congress is not held to the same laws and standards as the "masses"...Rather?...They are allowed to engage in things like insider trading/real estate and business that would have any normal citizen thrown in prison. Feinstein's husband was awarded a no bid contract (2 Billion Dollars) to sell all of the old Post Office properties.
    I could go on endlessly over just how corrupt, ineffective and dangerous our government has become, but it would fall on deaf ears...or more than likely it would bring out the apologists who don't see the problem and threat.
    Our system was not designed to be led by a "Class of professional politicians" who amass power and control instead of "Servants of the People" who put Country over Party.
    But that is where we are right now...And it is our own fault.


    Semper Fi
     
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  9. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)


    It's that and more. Brushing it off as buzzword is simplistic at this point in time. Socialism is a concept that is being embraced by their party making it mainstream and more than a buzzword. Now, the party squash it if it wasn't really something they want but of course it is something they want. The only difference today is they aren't hiding it as much. Previously they just created policy centered around the idea without saying it.
     
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  10. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    We will see. I think maybe Bernie got the support he did because he was the only alternative to Hillary, but I could be wrong.
     
  11. Shane3

    Shane3 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)


    https://www.politifact.com/vermont/...nders-get-more-primary-votes-young-minoritie/

    I received "more votes from young people — black, white, Latino, Asian American and Native American — than Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton combined."
    Bernie Sanders on Sunday, March 10th, 2019 in speech at a rally in Concord, New Hampshire

    Did Sanders get more primary votes from young minorities than Clinton and Trump?
     
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  12. U.S. Bates

    U.S. Bates Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    We will see about what? How many potential dem candidates (the ones whove declared) have backed Medicare for all (as a minimum)?
     
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  13. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    1,024.
     
  14. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Medicare for all isn’t some crazy socialist ideal.
    Most Democrats support some effort to achieve universal health care of some sort. That’s not new either.
     
  15. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Bankrupt America for all with ****ty healthcare is the end goal of the dems. Single payer universal healthcare. Pretending they want some other version is head in the sand. It's like pretending they don't want to ban guns when they say "common sense" gun control. End goal.
     
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  16. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    We already going bankrupt and we have ****ty health care now. We can do better.

    Like taking a look at the (many) countries that spend a lot less and still live longer.
     
  17. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I like my Medicare, at least where I live. Don't **** with it.
     
  18. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You might want to do a little research for once before you shoot your mouth off. The fact that some countries have higher life expectancies (especially for adults) has pretty much nothing to do with our health care system. Obesity is the biggest factor. But you gonna ban sugar, right?
    http://crr.bc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/IB_17-22.pdf
     
  19. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    This is my problem with a whole lot of older conservatives. SS and Medicare are socialist programs and cost us a ton of tax dollars. And yet they are sacrosanct. We must cut other spending and we can’t afford health care for all but leave mine alone.

    And no, FICA dollars during a work career typically don’t come close to covering the costs of an average retiree’s care.
     
  20. Eric Nahlin

    Eric Nahlin Recruiting Editor Staff Member

    Might want to get the loonies in your party to quit telling people to re-think having children. Somebody has to pay for Mr. Ponzi.
     
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  21. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Might want to tell people in your party to rethink the wall. Somebody has to pay for Mr. Ponzi.

    PS your side gets a disproportionate amount of the benefits from the scheme.
     
  22. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    by Jenn Carter

    Skeptics who believe a border wall will not stop illegals from entering the United States may want to look at what’s happening in Hungary

    On the day its border fence was completed, the influx of illegals entering Hungary went down from 6,353
    per day to 870 the next. For the remainder of that month, illegal border crossings were steadily below 40 per day, officials said.

    They don’t even try,” a local border guard told The Daily Caller News Foundation. “We haven’t had a single Muslim migrant in six months.”

    Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s pledge to stop illegals from flowing into the country appears to be a spectacular success.

    Hungary’s 96-mile long, 14-foot tall double-line fence includes several layers of razor-wire capable of delivering electric shocks. The barrier features cameras, heat sensors and loudspeakers ready to tell migrants they’re about to break
    Hungarian law if they as much as touch the fence, the DC report said.

    Nearly every police officer in Hungary is part of a rotation to monitor the border fence at all times.
    Temporary military bases house the police while they do their rotation.

    Additionally, Hungary will train and pay more than 1,000 volunteers to deploy as “border hunters”.

    Illegals who are caught are arrested and dropped off on the Serbian side of the fence. They don’t get a chance to apply for asylum unless they do so at a “transit zone” where they are held in housing containers while their cases get processed, the report
    said.

    In September 2016, thousands of migrants streamed across the border every day as they made their way north to Austria, Germany and Scandinavia.

    “It was an invasion,” Laszlo Toroczkai, the mayor of Asotthalom, told the Daily Caller. “Illegal immigration is a crime in a normal country. It’s not a normal thing to break into a country.”

    By mid-year it waswell beyond 100,000 people who came across,” said Zoltan Kovacs, a spokesman for the Hungarian government. “You should at least have the ability to handle what’s going on.”

    Kovacs added: “You might not like it, it’s not a nice thing, but … the only way to stop illegal border crossings is [to] first build a fence, man it, equip it, and also, in parallel, build up your capabilities in terms of legal confines, legal circumstances
    to be able to handle what is coming.”

    It’s no surprise the mainstream U.S. media refuses to report this story to the American public. Can you imagine how support for a Southern border wall would spike?

    We need immigration...That is a given.
    But get the fu*k in line, get a job, assimilate and be damned thankful that you were given the opportunity.
    As usual...Your arguments are political tropes that are not supported by facts.
    And it gets tiresome.

    Semper Fi
     
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  23. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)


    You're so ignorant you don't realize how ignorant that statement is.

    Cost of wall relative to cost of UHC = .000625%.

    It works. Of course it works. Even those they say it doesn't know it works. This isn't about what works. Its about Trump. Nothing more. Plus, the cost of the wall would pay for itself rather quickly given the cost associated with having them in country.

    Toss in that response is stupid, naturally, in relation to what was being responded to and you, once again see you're wasting your time.
     
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  24. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It was a tongue in cheek response.

    But you guys actually like we don’t have border protections in place. We already have fences now.

    PS

    That’s only 96 miles...and they aren’t trying to stay in Hungary. They are going through to better places.
     
  25. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Who could hear them over the gunshots?
     
  26. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    He hasn't in the nearly 20 years he's been on the board, why the hell would he start now?
     
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  27. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    One-time wall funding request to Congress: $8 billion

    Annual cost of Social Security/Medicare: $2 trillion

    This is the board's daily reminder that JG is a worldclass dunce.
     
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  28. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You hit me on a bad day with the "problem" you have with me. I just finalized what I think I'm going to owe as 1040 tax for 2018 aand sent all the data to my accountants to see what they think I'll owe. Last year I was withing 1% so I think I've got a good handle on it.

    I realize my FICA I paid in, and still paying, doesn't cover my healthcare. You think I'm ignorant? But of course I also know SS and Medicare are not lock boxes and it's all fungible with 1040 taxes. In my case FICA this year, and what I've paid in the past totaled up is insignificant to me compared to the rest of my 104o tax since FICA wages have been a miniscule part of my AGI since I quit being a wage slave in 1979. Admittedly they weren't really all that much when I was a wage slave way back then, but if I could have kept it and invested it would have been a not insignificant amount, but whatever, don't matter.

    I have no wife or dependents--well not for tax purposes anyway, so I'll just be figure I'm one of 330 million individuals in the U.S, (children included) for the following calculation. My 1040 taxes for 2018 taxes will cover my individual share of the Federal budget as one of 33o million people and twenty other the people too. The Government already docks half my social security for Medicare Part B, but they can keep the rest too, and it won't make a significant difference to me. So, since you addressed me with this comment, you can just STFU.

    For me,it's not the money, it's the convenience of Medicare. I still have to have a Supplemental and Part D (which are income adjusted up). But I've got itworking now and I don't want the ****ing government to make thing more complicated by doing away with Medicare. I'd also not like to pay taxes for an additional 30 people to pay for Medicare for all. Call me greedy.
     
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  29. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Don’t reply to my posts. They are intended for people with at least sixth grade level understanding of irony.

    :eek:
     
  30. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You are not an average senior.

    The average senior gets a lot more in benefits than they paid in.

    And again, they want their universal health care, but don’t want it for younger people. And heaven forbid we talk about cutting either SS and Medicare to balance the budget.

    This is so typically American. I got mine, go hit someone else up to balance the budget.

    You’d rather those people go without health care? I would not. Fundamental difference here. I believe basic health care is something that shouldn’t be set on whether you have money. You and your side don’t, at least unless they are 65 then it’s a good thing.
     
  31. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I have read your original post several times to see what I'm missing. I can confidently conclude that you have yet to reach a sixth grade understanding of irony.
     
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  32. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Whatever.
     
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  33. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Isn't it exhausting?
     
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  34. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Yes.
     
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  35. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)


    [​IMG]
     
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