Senate Republicans to Rebuke Trump Twice

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Events' started by HelmetBoy, Mar 14, 2019 at 8:11 AM.

  1. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Senate Republicans are set to vote for two resolutions this week, one to curtail the US’s involvement in Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen and two, blocking Trump’s emergency declaration on the wall. The border resolution is likely to pass with 60+ votes.

    This will lead to Trump’s first vetoes of his administration.

    Fantastic. It’s about time Congress stopped rolling over and ceding all its power and authority to the executive and started re-asserting its Constitutional role. Congress declares wars and spends the money. Full stop.

    They need to pass a third resolution clawing back the extra-constitutional trade powers it previously extended to the executive.

    If we’re going to have imbeciles and lunatics like Trump and whoever the Dem’s Progressive Caucus nominates for 2020 as presidents for the foreseeable future, executive powers need to be drastically curtailed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 8:18 AM
  2. TEXBTP

    TEXBTP Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Unless the bill passes with 67 votes this is just a show vote.
     
    40A likes this.
  3. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Until enough Republicans vote to actually override his veto this doesn’t mean anything. And there aren’t enough votes in either the house or the senate to get that accomplished.
     
  4. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Don’t reply to my posts.

    They are intended for people who have a baseline rudimentary understanding of politics and political capital.

    And to troll Trumpers.
     
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  5. windycityhorn

    windycityhorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Hard to say which group is more cynical here: The Dems who voted for these resolutions, after staying silent while other presidents overstepped their constitutional authority? Or Pubs who will vote against them but complained at length about Obama's imperial presidency?

    These measures are practically meaningless (they will be vetoed and those vetoes will stand) but politically useful for Pubs. Mitch knows how to count votes. I expect the emergency declaration vote to pass by more than 55 but less than 67, with many Pubs who vote yes being coincidentally up for tough re-elections in 2020.

    The unintended consequences are, I believe, a strengthening of the president's hand, not a weakening. If Congress really cares more about clawing back these powers than they care about keeping their jobs, they'll override Trump's vetoes. Their certain failure to do so will once again show this president, and the next one, exactly what he can get away with.
     
  6. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Get back to me when they do something like this with a President that is one of them and they like or can at least moderately stand being around. Until that happens this is just smoke and mirrors of congress finally acting like congress.
     
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  7. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It's politics. It's mostly show and symbolism.
     
  8. TEXBTP

    TEXBTP Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I also think the subject matter is too complex to start a national conversation on the matter.
     
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  9. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    We don't need a national conversation on the balance and separations of powers. We have those things to keep the conversation away from the hoi polloi.
     
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  10. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Senator Mike Lee, who is basically the model after which all Republican senators should fashion themselves, introduced a new bill limiting presidential emergency powers to 30 days after which Congress must vote to continue/renew. That was his offer to Trump in exchange for senate Republicans to kill the resolution.

    Of course, Trump refused to hit the bid and is resigned to swallow the embarrassing bipartisan rebuke.

    But this was an important first step and a tactic that can be replicated in the future with Trump or future presidents when they’ve pissed away their political capital, gotten themselves boxed in and try to **** their Congressional allies to save face.
     
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  11. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Now just repeal his authority for the overseas terrorism act thing (can't remember the real name) and his authority for "emergency" tariffs under the National Trade Act (again, I think that's it) and we're getting somewhere.
     
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  12. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Lee is one of the good ones.


    Semper Fi
     
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  13. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks

    Hmmm, I hadn't looked at it that way, but I'm afraid you may well be right.
     
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  14. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Curious conclusion. I would argue that's just not the way Congress works. Progress will happen via incrementalism at moments of executive weakness. It's not like a day will come where Congress will stand up, lock arms, drop all sensitivity to politics and decide they will take their Constitutional powers backs!

    That said, do you think that a dozen or so Senate Republicans breaking with the president in the face of intense lobbying by the president personally to back him and save him from an embarrassing congressional rebuke makes it more or less likely that this sort of thing would happen again?

    Do you think it's more or less likely that said president takes the prospect of potential congressional blowback from within his own party more seriously the next time he considers taking a particularly polarizing or extra-constitutional action the suits him politically but no one else?
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 11:27 AM
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  15. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I think it's absurd. But everyone has their own opinion.
     
  16. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks

    I'll be the first to admit that I don't understand how politics works.
     
    TexasPalladin likes this.
  17. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I will respond to whatever the hell I want to.

    Feel free to use the ignore function if that ruffles your feathers.

    Asshole.
     
  18. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    People like you make me laugh. You complain about Trumpers and Congress not doing their job but you would still vote for the R every time.

    You are part of the problem and are far to egotistical to see it.
     
  19. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Not sure I follow. And if I do, I disagree.
     
    PFD likes this.
  20. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks


    Why is it that so many Democrats seem to so often think that blatantly insulting people is a good way to engage with them? Admittedly, it's not something the Democrats have a monopoly on. Trump also seems to think that. Which is one reason I can't stand the man as a person.
     
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  21. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    "far too..."
     
  22. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Take a look at the way a significant percentage of conservative posters on this board treat liberals, and then let’s talk about blatantly insulting people and engaging.

    I absolutely do not include you in that. You post and debate in a respectful manner. But there is a large number of others on this board that do not.
     
  23. Duke Silver

    Duke Silver Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Reminder: everyone thinks you're a clown.
     
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  24. windycityhorn

    windycityhorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Aren't these essentially the same question? I have the same answer to both: I do not believe these votes by Republicans will affect Trump's future decision-making in any way.
     
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  25. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks

    Thank you.
     
  26. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    That’s explicitly counter-intuitive to me but people can make up theor own minds.
     
  27. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

     
  28. windycityhorn

    windycityhorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    We'll get to see, won't we? I have no doubt you'll remind me of all this if it turns out I'm wrong.

    I want to see it before I believe it. There is nothing in the previous two years and counting of the Trump presidency so far that would cause me to believe that a handful of Republicans crossing the aisle will cause him to reconsider his tactics.
     
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  29. ole tnhorn

    ole tnhorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    No need to try. They are indistinguishable
     
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  30. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Well nothing involving congressional Republicans actually crossing the aisle to rebuke him, right?
     
  31. windycityhorn

    windycityhorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Closest thing was when McCain scuttled the Obamacare repeal vote.

    I'm not saying this isn't unprecedented in his presidency. You and I just differ on whether it's going to make any difference moving forward.
     
    40A likes this.
  32. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Yup and you and the other 2-3 boneheads who continually post stupid **** solely to elicit a response, deserve everything you get.
     
    40A likes this.
  33. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Well, not exactly.

    I said the passage of these resolutions with Republican support is unquestionably a positive development and could lead to more assertiveness on the part of the legislative branch and/or fewer instances of executive overreach going forward. You said that it is more likely to have precisely the opposite effect and would likely lead to even more instances of executive overreach.
     
  34. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It *could*, yes. But let's not forget that the vast majority of the Republicans will have voted against the resolution (although it will still pass both chambers) and after Trump's veto, with the vast majority of Republicans still holding firm, there will be no override. In other words, there is a *long* way to go to actually put that assertiveness into real action.
     
  35. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Helmet already addressed this - incrementalism.
     
  36. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    So, um. Passing a bipartisan rebuke of the president is real action. I know you guys want to pretend like that doesn't matter and completely ignore the fact that Trump has been throwing a ****-fit and lobbying Congressional Republicans furiously for the past two weeks and and sending Mike Pencing to the Hill a half a dozen times to try to prevent it.

    Congressional rebukes are embarrassing. They make the President look weak. It depresses his political base. Trump is facing re-election soon. This stuff matters. It's the very essence of politics.

    Name the last time Congress has stood up to the executive on anything. Did Democrats take a stand against Obama even once? Just one Democrat? On anything?
     
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  37. TEXBTP

    TEXBTP Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    If I was trump I’d veto this on TV, in front of a sea of red hats.
     
  38. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Never said that. I said that it remains to be seen whether this brings about real change or fizzles out. I also said that this is hardly a bi-partisan rebuke because most Republicans didn't vote for it. Only 13 Republicans in the House voted for the resolution - 182 did not. And we have, what, maybe six GOP Senators that will vote in favor of the resolution out of 53?

    So, yes, this is progress but it remains to be seen if the aircraft carrier finishes its turn or just temporarily, slightly changes course. Time will tell.
     
  39. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You want to compare credentials, we can get to it anytime you like.

    Acting like a condescending asshole doesn’t Add anything to your arguments are points. It just makes you look like a condescending asshole.
     
  40. HelmetBoy

    HelmetBoy Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    That is different than what I said how?
     

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