The Bleeding wounds of our Constitutional Order

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Events' started by TexasPalladin, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I found this Op-Ed on RCP and felt it was worthy of posting and discussion.
    I agree with the authors in that the Republic is in serious danger from "weaponized/politicized" government agencies have allowed themselves to be corrupted/subverted by politics and hubris.
    And I find it both disturbing and frightening.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/a...ounds_of_our_constitutional_order_139505.html

    Thoughts?

    Semper Fi
     
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  2. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Here is another take on the actions of McCabe and company.
    And yes, I honestly believe that we have entered into a very dangerous time in America.
    A weaponized Federal Agency (F.B.I., IRS, ATF, etc) is an extremely dangerous threat to our entire system of government and existence as a Democratic Republic. The only threat that would be worse would be the politicization and weaponizing the Military against the people.
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/02/fbi-trump-investigation-andrew-mccabe-interview/


    Semper Fi
     
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  3. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I have been warning of civil war for a few years and largely been laughed at and ridiculed by the same ilk who brought us this palace coup plan. Now that the Socialist are out of the closet, we had better wake the **** up.
     
  4. SmackBrown

    SmackBrown Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Gunny, the million dollar questions is, how much of this has already been happening, and due to technology, more of it being exposed?
     
  5. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I have stated this in conversations with friends.
    If things do not change and the country continues on it's current trajectory, I do not think that The United States will exist in another 50 years as a Democratic/Constitutional Republic...Or even as a contiguous nation.
    We are rapidly rapidly fragmenting and it remains to be seen as to how far/bad it will get.
    I won't be around for the end result....But I can weep for my grandchildren.


    Semper Fi
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  6. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It has happened before and that is not a secret.
    But the sheer audacity and scale is what is frightening.


    Semper Fi
     
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  7. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    What happens if and when a president does truly go rogue? Who does the investigation? Congress? Sure, but who collects the evidence?

    Remember that the 25th Amendment exists for a reason. That a group of cabinet members can get together and ultimately stage a perfectly legal coup. That discussion has to start somewhere. And if we are unformatable with this, then the language and option needs to be removed from the Constitution.
     
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  8. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Sadly I agree with you.
     
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  9. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It doesn't matter where your politics fall if the citizens aren't paying attention, and they don't seem to be, there will be some sort of attempt in the future. Time moves but human nature does't change.
     
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  10. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Ok. Fair enough.
     
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  11. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I am not disagreeing with you, I just think, and have for some time, eventually the country you know today will see the same types of problems every country in the history of the world has had leading to a fundamental change in government. The problem with staging a perfectly legal coup is it begs the question who gets to decide when its appropriate.
    Trumps an idiot but he's not coup worthy. They don't like him so they want to toss him out. W was a bigger idiot he just went along with playing politics as usual and don't get me started on the last guy.

    My point is on a grander scale as things continue to fracture who and how many may become complicit in attempting a legal coup. Much like "national emergency" should be an actual emergency removing a sitting president via the 25th better have some damn good ammunition otherwise in both cases you set bad precedent. Harry Reid was a dumbass for going nuclear and its now hurt the very party he thought he was helping. Whoops. Same can be said for what we are seeing and reading about now.
     
  12. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Outstanding post/observations.
    I agree completely with your assessment.


    Semper Fi
     
  13. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Sure. I agree that the ammunition needs to be pretty good. And it may not have been in this case.

    As to Reid, you have a point, but it was going to happen at some point. Had Reid not gone there at some point Mitch would have done it. No way he was going to allow two Trump SCOTUS nominees to whither on the vine. That’s just where we are with politics these days.
     
  14. mcb0703!

    mcb0703! Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Lisa Page, the former gf of fired FBI agent Peter Strozk, has provided significant details to Mueller & both Intelligence Committees...& this hasn’t been leaked

    When her info comes out, I expect the full details about both Trump & Hillary investigations to show how everything unfolded...dates, times, people, etc

    One FBI liaison rep I work with @ DIA believes Comey & McCabe wrote their books as soon as possible to get paid now, knowing the legal trouble they may be in shortly

    & more details about AG Lynch’s conduct expected to come out as well
     
  15. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I was just getting ready to remind folks about the Page/Strozk Text Messages that spoke to "Andy's insurance policy" in case HRC lost and Trump won the Presidency.
    This enters into the realm of not only Conspiracy (Grassy Knoll stuff), but of basically planning for a Coup to overturn a election.
    And like yourself, I was and have been in/around the Intel game for many years so I am more than a little cynical, suspicious and dismissive of "Government/Deep State Conspiracy" theories.
    But the unfolding story of the event s and how everything unfolded is becoming worthy of a Ludlum novel.


    Semper Fi
     
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  16. J Galt

    J Galt Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    The fundamental role of government and the procedural rules of engagement for that government are the most critical issues facing our country. Every news headline, media frenzy and message board dust up is a proxy battle for these two questions.

    Role of government is most directly influenced by your political leanings. It is the clear battleground.

    Rule of engagement for the government should be apolitical. It is the secret threat.
     
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  17. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    What I find funny is that there have been many on the far left advocating that their newfound positions on items like the GND are non-compromising and they will have them by legislation or by "pitchfork" (as one leftist said the other day). I don't think these folks realize what kind of response there would be from those who oppose Socialism in this country. Trump was what I would deem a "legislative" response to Obama. What's next should someone like Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, or Bernie Sanders become President.
     
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  18. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    As long as there are folks like me left, Socialism/Communism will never win without a fight.
    And that is their biggest fear and greatest challenge.
    Which is also why they have waged their war within the education system through programming and propaganda.
    We no longer teach American History, Civics, Government or of American Pride and Exceptionalism.
    So children no longer believe that they live in the greatest country in history.

    While I realize this may seem a "Over the Top" comment to some.
    I love my country...And that the United States is the last and greatest hope for mankind.
    And I feel very strongly that it is worth fighting for and preserving.


    Semper Fi
     
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  19. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Agreed, I had a conversation just the other day with a buddy of mine who went through college via his GI bill and American Exceptionalism just isn't taught anymore.

    I'm sure I'll get ridiculed for this, but I saw this largely pushed through the Obama agenda. His father was an anti-imperial activist in Africa and Obama idolized him and wanted to take us down a peg or two.
     
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  20. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Glad to see you posting here again.
    You add a lot to the discussion.
    Post more.


    Semper Fi
     
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  21. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You're projecting.
     
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  22. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Believe when see.

    However, a **** ton of folks from top to bottom are very likely complicit and should go to jail. By top I mean top. I hope anyone and everyone that was involved gets slammed to drive home the point this is unacceptable and there are consequences. Maybe it makes this entire thread moot.
     
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  23. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It's called a political forum and there are going to be opinions. Of course I'm speculating as there is no way to prove, nor will there ever be, what Mitch would have done had Reid not opened the door.
     
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  24. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    To quote you. Ok. Fair enough.

    Its plausible someone would eventually do it. I just hate the," it's inevitable so let's go ahead and do it", routine that seems to be the norm these days.
     
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  25. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Isn't that what Trump is doing with the wall?
     
  26. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Hang on, that's not what I was getting at. I'm merely stating that someone was going to do it eventually, not that I agreed with it. And let's keep in mind that while Reid opened the door, Mitch didn't have to open it wider with respect to SCOTUS nominees. You can't fault Reid without faulting Mitch, too.
     
  27. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Was a general notation not specific to you or your comments. Its just seems to be how people justify doing things they know they can't or shouldn't
     
  28. J Galt

    J Galt Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Thanks Mike. I lurk a lot but don't post unless (1) the conversation is elevated (not in the muck) and (2) I have something to add that hasn't been stated.

    To that end, you quoted my post which gets to the heart of it: arguing over every topic du jour is absolutely laborious. Just the same proxy battles about the role of government. This thread actually gets at an important but often misunderstood aspect of the republic: procedural rules of engagement. Just as you can have incremental creep in the role of government, the same can occur in tactical use (or abuse) of authority. Unfortunately, I think it's an area where there could/should be a lot of unity but hurt feelings about "the abuses" of the opposition party is just too tempting for the ruling party to not use for retribution.
     
  29. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Got it. No worries.
     
  30. The_Major

    The_Major Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    McCabe threw Lynch under the bus in an article yesterday.
     
  31. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    No. I'm not talking about Presidential overreach here.
     
  32. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Both are means-to-an-end concepts, though.
     
  33. 40A

    40A Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Kind of, but the scopes are far different and I believe the response will be as well.
     
  34. Shane3

    Shane3 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Excellent article. My belief is that we slide fully into socialism. Trump gets swallowed up by the swamp with just a little burp.
     
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  35. jamesrh

    jamesrh Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    That's not really the reason it exists. Not to prevent a "rogue" president. It is to prevent a situation where a president becomes mentally unfit but otherwise functional. For instance, develops Alzheimer's or dementia while in office and is unable to recognize his or her own unfitness because of the mental incapacity. That is the function of the amendment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
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  36. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    [​IMG]
     
  37. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I'm quite aware of the history of the amendment but that doesn't mean it can't be used for a president who becomes unfit due to bizarre behavior that's not traced back to any dementia, etc. The text is:

    "Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President."

    The trick is the definition of what 'unable to discharge' means to the Vice President and members of the cabinet. If they sign a declaration, they sign a declaration. For an extreme example, if the president ordered a nuclear strike against China even though there was no immediate threat or other explanation, my understanding is that those orders aren't carried out without consultation of senior military officials and it's almost certain such a strike would not be launched. Would that fall under the definition of 'unable to discharge the powers and duties off his office?' I think so. And I think it would be a prudent justification of the 25th Amendment to be invoked.

    Hopefully this process will never have to be used outside the loss of mental capacities due to old age or disease. Outside of that it should be Congress who impeaches a president for failing to due his/her job, but I can think of extreme cases where there wouldn't be time to present evidence to Congress and go through the impeachment process.
     
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  38. HornsWin

    HornsWin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Unfortunately, Americans suffer from the same problem, which is a lethal cocktail of ignorance and arrogance. We are to ignorant to read the writing on the wall, because we are too arrogant to believe that such a thing as civil war, even a cold civil war, could ever happen here. Anywhere else in the world, yeah, but we're ****ing America, man, and we have our **** together.

    For this reason, when it happens - and it will - it will be all the more devastating.
     
  39. cctxfan

    cctxfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I think things are going to get worse, but I hope we can avoid all out civil war. It's going to take leaders that can demonstrate how compromise works while at the same time explaining it's OK for people to maintain their differences.
     
  40. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    This pretty much sums up my thoughts and fears as well.
    And also why I shall never give up my Right to keep and bear arms in order to defend not only myself but my country as well.


    Semper Fi
     
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