The new SAT.

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Events' started by calvin farquhar, May 16, 2019 at 3:16 PM.

  1. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I guess just having an understanding of math and english aren't enough.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/sat-to...re-social-and-economic-background-11557999000

    The College Board, the company that writes and administers the SAT college entrance exam to thousands of American high schoolers, says it's revamping its scoring process to include an "adversity score" alongside the SAT's standardized measurements of verbal and mathematical prowess, according to The Wall Street Journal.

    The "adversity score" will take into account the social and economic backgrounds of SAT takers, and will be awarded based on a 15-factor analysis, The Wall Street Journal reports. Students will be judged on "the crime rate and poverty levels of the student's high school and neighborhood," the student's "housing environment," the student's parents' income and education levels, and whether the student had access to higher-level and advanced placement (AP) classes.

    "A score of 50 is considered 'average,'" according to the WSJ. Scores above 50 indicate hardship. Scores below 50 indicate that a student is "privileged." College admissions advisers will access the scores through the SAT's online score reporting system, in a tab labeled "Overall Disadvantage Level."

    It appears students will not be able to view — or, more importantly, challenge — their adversity scores.

    The College Board justified the new adversity score by claiming that low SAT scores aren't always the result of poor academic performance, and that colleges, who are relying less and less on diversity quotas, should be aware of any exculpatory evidence that might explain a poor SAT performance.

    "There are a number of amazing students who may have scored less (on the SAT) but have accomplished more," David Coleman, CEO of The College Board told the WSJ. "We can't sit on our hands and ignore the disparities of wealth reflected in the SAT.
     
  2. Turnbo828

    Turnbo828 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

  3. acreativeusername

    acreativeusername Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    A doctor I worked with today actually mentioned this. Both he and his wife are doctors, and he's the first in his family to even attend college. Their kids are beyond screwed because their parents are successful, short of completely dominating the tests
     
  4. Turnbo828

    Turnbo828 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Total BS. I’m smarter than you and score higher on my SATs than you, but because you’re poor and/or live in a bad neighborhood, they raised your score higher than mine. Total crock of ****.
     
  5. futures2015

    futures2015 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Asian students are really f*cked, now.
     
  6. J Galt

    J Galt Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    ha, finally a good reason for why i never pursued an MBA. it's not because i was "content and lazy" and didn't want to spend the time and money on a credential. it's because i wanted to deflate my daughters' privilege ranking.
     
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  7. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    How well do you know @acreativeusername ?
     
  8. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    In their minds, that is what they are trying to avoid.
     
  9. J Galt

    J Galt Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    and they're probably not wrong that starting from a more challenging home environment tends to lead to lower standardized test scores.

    the question is: should we reconfigure a merit-based system to artificially level that disadvantage by adjusting scores -or- should we encourage different values that lead to better home environments but keep the merit-based-rewards in place?
     
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  10. camp_4

    camp_4 Member Who Talks

    40A, Halas, PFD and 4 others like this.
  11. Turnbo828

    Turnbo828 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Just a hypothetical. I’m dumb. Everyone knows that.
     
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  12. padrehorn11

    padrehorn11 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    So the children of the high skills, professional degree, immigrants we are going for under the merit-based immigration preferences will get dinged on their SAT score before they even take a seat.

    Completely logical in today's America.:confused:

    So maybe the immigrants with advanced degrees and skills will consider their children's future and consider some country with more sensible policies. Ya think?
     
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  13. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    #Ishouldhaveusedsarcasmfont
     
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  14. Turnbo828

    Turnbo828 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    #metoo #nohedidnttouchme
     
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  15. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    This is playing out all across the country as less qualified applicants get admitted and ultimately drop out. There are several studies confirming this and it has disproportionately affected those it was supposed to help. The problem becomes that many never end up finishing school. It's prevalent at Ivy League schools, law schools, med schools. We're a stupid country that can't admit some basic reality. The valedictorian of Little House on the Prairie High School is less likely to be ready for the rigor of Yale than the one from Highland Park High School. This approach on the SAT will likely give more "points" to Laura Ingalls because she's living on a prairie, possibly giving her a spot she may not be ready to take on while leaving out a more qualified candidate. I understand the idea, but it's flawed. An idea with good intentions that will end up with a poor outcome.
     
  16. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    #Don'tAskDon'tTell
     
  17. futures2015

    futures2015 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It's clear to me that the people who developed this new SAT plan are short on electrolytes. They need yuuuge amounts of Brawndo.

    [​IMG]
     
    40A, PFD, Duke Silver and 3 others like this.
  18. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Let me ask a question. Who really deserves a spot more… Student A… Who lives in highland park, and had mommy and daddy buy him SAT prep classes. He’s had the best teachers, lots of available AP and college prep classes. He never had to work. He got a 1340 on the SAT.

    Student B is from Throckmorton. His dad is long gone. He lives in a trailer with his mom. It’s a small school with only a few teachers and only a couple of AP classes. He’s had to work at Allsups since his sophomore year. He got a 1280 on the SAT.

    Which one deserves the spot more?
     
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  19. jamesrh

    jamesrh Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Frankly, I think that that each school should use the SAT to establish a min threshold based on historical data, and then use whatever other criteria they choose to use beyond that. The schools use SAT scores for ranking because it is simple, but then they don't get the results they are now looking for so they try to come up with some revised rubric that still allows them to avoid owning their decisions. They should just pick from the pools that are likely to graduate based on grades and SAT scores, and own their decisions.
     
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  20. eodhorn

    eodhorn Member Who Talks


    I would definitely want to see student "B"s actual grades during that four year HS span. If they are comparable I might pick "B" which isn't a popular concept I am sure. I do value time management though, and "B" probably is better at it.
     
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  21. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Your first question should always be, "Is either of them Asian?". Next, determine where they fall on the intersectional scale. I'd need to see the actual classes in addition to grades. An AP A in chem is worth more to me than an A in reg chem. As for the question you answered, it lacks the detail needed to make the decision.
     
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  22. eodhorn

    eodhorn Member Who Talks

    Agree. And I probably should have gone into more detail, but I am a dumb old retired bomb technician. College was not my chosen path so not necessarily qualified to deep dive answers here.
     
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  23. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Your point was right. Grades matter. Classes matter. The entrance essay matters. Ewe kan tale alot frum they're ese, dude. How'd they interview?
     
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  24. The_Major

    The_Major Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    What you are pointing out is that the SAT is a terrible gauge. And you are right.
     
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  25. The_Major

    The_Major Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    The problem with this is AP Chem at one school isn't the same as AP Chem at another.
     
  26. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Sure. But that's true of almost every class, even P.E.
     
  27. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Kind of agree.

    Well by itself it’s not a great gauge. It’s a predictor but not the be-all in itself.
     
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  28. btown1110

    btown1110 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Well in Texas, it's self-selecting because if they both applied to UT then Student B is much more likely to gain automatic acceptance than Student A.
     
  29. scout3dave

    scout3dave Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I don't want to denigrate the wealthy kid who scored well on his SAT unless he was one of the bozos in California who's parents bribed someone to take the test for him. He still has to make a class ranking to get into a UT for example.

    Now for the kid who came up in a more difficult situation there are opportunities for him to get into a UT by making class rank. Class rank is a good indicator of success especially coupled with SAT scores.

    Basing acceptance on community service is stupid.
     
  30. acreativeusername

    acreativeusername Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Something I just thought of... who verifies this info? What’s stopping a kid from completely lying about their parents’ income, education, and marital status?
     
  31. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    IRS baby. I was thinking FAFSA and DOE but you wouldn't have filed it at the time you are applying.
     
  32. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I agree with both of you.

    Adding a layer comparing basically what the student had to overcome should be a small tool for places where the acceptance of a top class rank percent isn't automatic. It should be limited, maybe with two students that are fairly close in scores, figure who had to do more to reach that score and figure that student might be hungrier.

    I also agree that community service is a really stupid measure. I didn't have time to do any such service - my ass had to work.
     
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  33. acreativeusername

    acreativeusername Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    When I signed up for the SAT, I don’t remember giving any specific info like that for my parents. Maybe it’s changed or I’m misremembering
     
  34. The_Major

    The_Major Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You can be coached to do well on the SAT. It's not a measurement of intelligence.
     
  35. futures2015

    futures2015 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Can't wait to see the "adversity score" incorporated into FICO scores, you know, because people with sh*tty credit are being unfairly judged.
     
  36. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    It’s a measure of knowledge, and somewhat of critical thinking. It’s a predicator of success in college, but it’s not infallible.

    I would say you can be coached to do better on it, but you have to have the knowledge base and thinking skills to work with.
     
    Horns05 likes this.
  37. J Galt

    J Galt Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Well said, who deserves the spot more : student A (Alabama) or student B (UCF)? ;)

    #neverforget
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 11:23 PM
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  38. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Student B printed out his own diploma and put it on Linked in.
     
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  39. J Galt

    J Galt Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Cool. So you think the pedigreed student A with 1 loss deserves it more. Got it. At least your consistent.
     
  40. JG

    JG Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I was being facetious and poking fun at CF and their “championship”.
     
    TexasPalladin likes this.

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