What Does Bernie Sanders Believe?

Discussion in 'Politics and Current Events' started by futures2015, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. futures2015

    futures2015 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    As the Kavanaugh hearings taught us, those who aspire to high office must have their entire lives examined.

    CNN - 3/14/2019: Bernie Sanders in the 1970s urged nationalization of most major industries
    The problem with saying things on-the-record is that people can go back and see what you said.





     
  2. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    This is no surprise. Bernie has always said he was a socialist.
     
  3. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    He says socialist because many still know what communism is and don't like it. Socialism sounds better but he's communist.
     
  4. ttaghorn

    ttaghorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    He "believes" he is a Socialist, not Communist, well maybe just a little Commie in him. He definitely believes in lots of "free" stuff.
     
  5. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I just like that we as liberals and progressives are finally not running scared anymore.

    For years, it was a death sentence in politics to have the dreaded liberal tag put on you. Finally we stopped cowering from it, stood up, and rightly claimed our proud history of fighting for civil rights, women's rights, environmental rights, and worker's rights.

    The socialism tag is but the last one. Socialism is a very broad label, and the right has once againfound a boogie-word to get the reaction they need to win elections.

    We in fact have many aspects of socialism already present in our country today, and have for generations. And Americans overwhelmingly favor those socialistic programs and ideals. The only major hurdles remaining are socialized medicine and improvements in implementing already passed social goals inthe arena of civil and worker rights. And that is coming. 78% of people believe in higher taxes on the wealthy. And that's necessary to finalize universal healthcare like Europe, Japan, and Canada, Austrailia, as well as places in Asia, already enjoy and prosper with.

    The train has already left the station, conservatives are just ****ing up the tracks to realized equal opportunity for all.
     
  6. sacatomato horn

    sacatomato horn Member Who Talks

    The social safety net that exists in the US is not socialism, it is a means to protect our most vulnerable citizens and it works pretty well. Government medicine is only a means of expanding that safety net, in my view, to ill effect.

    Socialism in any accurate definition, as opposed to capitalism, is the state owning, controlling and directing the means of production. And everywhere it has been forcefully applied, it has been a, well... this is how it works:

    upload_2019-3-16_14-51-0.png
     
  7. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    But, it just hasn't been done right yet.
     
    padrehorn11 and sacatomato horn like this.
  8. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Nice gif.

    Who said force had to be part of the equation?
     
  9. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Says few in most of Europe, Japan, Canada, Australia, etc.
     
  10. sacatomato horn

    sacatomato horn Member Who Talks

    Yep. Just one more try:

    upload_2019-3-16_15-8-9.png
     
  11. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Again who are the everybody elses that comprise several hundred million people in the nations I mentioned above?
     
  12. sacatomato horn

    sacatomato horn Member Who Talks

    All are capitalist countries with some elements of their social safety net more expansive than ours, some less. And:

    Japan- headed for demographic disaster. More adult diapers sold than infant diapers. Zero immigration, Zero diversity. Zero comparison to the US
    Europe- Seen the news from Paris this weekend?
    Norway and Sweden- Social programs are being scaled back as the demographic base can no longer support the infrastructure.
    Canada: Wholly dependent the United States economic might and advances in medicine and pharmaceuticals, all brought to you by...... capitalism.
     
  13. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    True. But we haven't tried it yet and we'll get it right.
     
    padrehorn11 likes this.
  14. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    All I am asking for is universal healthcare like those countries have and for which even the conservatives in those countries are thankful. Every human being deserves healthcare. My socialism does not include free college.

    Japan decided to practically collectively stop procreating. It's been a unique fascinating social development over the last generation. And a slightly different version of that is actually happening across much of Europe as well. It's a logical end result of wealth and leisure. And a good reminder that throughout the entirety of human civilization until recent times, people had children for labor.
     
    Burnt Orange and sacatomato horn like this.
  15. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Pssst.
    If they are so fuc*king good?
    Why don't you move there and benefit from their greatness too instead of trying to be a would be revolutionary who wants to "fix" us?
    Just because the rest of the "World" thinks something is great, grand and glorious does not make them right and the U.S. wrong.
    Psst....
    That is why we have a Constitutional Republic instead of a true Democracy.

    Kinda like the "Gun Debate".
    Just because you and million of others don't like/want them does not give you the right to take away mine and million of others Right to have them.

    Several people have already explained our social "safety nets" to you versus socialist programs.
    But you seem incapable of understanding the difference between them.
    Here is a simple answer....
    Government takeover of industries and programs is NOT the answer.
    The more powerful a government is....
    The less free it's people are.


    Semper Fi
     
    padrehorn11 and futures2015 like this.
  16. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Actually we have. And we do get it right except for the fact that millions suffer the lack of proper healthcare.
     
    Burnt Orange likes this.
  17. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Hip,
    Healthcare is one of those areas where there is no straight answer.
    I'll grant your heart is in the right place.
    And I even sympathize with you on it.
    And I do not have a good answer.
    But government takeover of the healthcare industry would end up as a unmitigated and bankrupting disaster.


    Semper Fi
     
    padrehorn11 and futures2015 like this.
  18. btown1110

    btown1110 Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    We have a Canadian in the office (been in the US for less than a year) and we were discussing socialized medicine and he was saying how great it is in Canada and someone (who's pretty far left btw) brought up wait times and the Canadian guy goes "they're great, the average for major surgeries is down to 19 weeks." That includes some issues that are life-threatening mind you and the left-wing guy was astounded. Standard stuff (like oral surgery for wisdom teeth) is well over year, often two or more.

    Yes, if I tear my ACL while skiing, I'm going to be super happy to wait 5-6 months to get it repaired. It's free, right? I should be thanking the government (who's taxing me at 30%+) and not upset at how my muscles have realigned themselves and therefore complicated my recovery!
     
  19. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Well something changes to your rights when my rights and your rights and everyone's rights are infringed to safely take my family to a movie, restuarant, or place of worship (yuck, I'd never do that anyway) without the uniquely American possibility that they get mowed down by some idiot with a legally bought weapon.
     
    Burnt Orange likes this.
  20. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Anecdotes and spooky stories don't undercut actual raw data and polling on its favorability. Even the conservatives in those countries like their healthcare. That is factual.
     
    Burnt Orange likes this.
  21. fdub206

    fdub206 Member Who Talks

    Wow so brave.
     
  22. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Right? Took us long enough. At least we are unique in standing for something. Cowards do the opposite.
     
    Burnt Orange likes this.
  23. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Cowards?
    In what way?
    I stand for a hell of a lot of things.
    Just because I do not stand for the same things that you do does not bring into question mine or anyone's else's courage or lack thereof.

    Try to remember what I have stated here before.
    Try to imagine the person you are addressing is sitting across from you.
    Because Hip,
    I have been accused of many things in my life.
    But of not standing up for my beliefs and being a coward about any of them is not one of them.

    I might accuse you of acting like a child at times.
    But I would never deign to question either your commitment to your beliefs or your courage in doing so.
    Please afford those of us who do not agree with you the same level of respect.

    Semper Fi
     
  24. acreativeusername

    acreativeusername Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    I used to be very big on universal healthcare, but between reading about it and working with physicians who came here from Canada, there are a load of problems

    I’d rather work to fix our current system by increasing competition to drive down prices for consumers

    One big additional problem here is lifestyle. To put it bluntly, Americans are fat and lazy. Costs will be astronomical here covering for everyone who doesn’t take care of themselves and doesn’t take their medicine. It is a very serious problem in the ERs I work in
     
  25. RepOfTexas

    RepOfTexas Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You keep referring to conservatives in Europe and Canada as if somehow they’re the same as conservatives in the US. They’re not.
     
  26. theelusiveshadow

    theelusiveshadow Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Wait, is this a serious post? Being called a liberal was politically bad? Is it like those sports teams who are considered favorites but still use the line "nobody believes in us" because it's easier to feel like the plucky underdog or the victim?

    Socialism is a broad label... that encompasses things like communism and OG Nazism. It envisions a much more controlling role for the government over the economy. Period. Simply having social programs is not socialism; in fact, for any country to even have a hope to have a successful mass welfare/healthcare program, they need to have it funded by a free market economy. Even then, many countries struggle with the weight of such expenses.

    And 78% of people believing in higher taxes on the wealthy is not the same as supporting socialism; most people in America still do not.
     
  27. TexasPalladin

    TexasPalladin Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Completely agree here.
    Socialism is both a economic and political model that requires the economic model to be implemented in order to achieve the political outcome.
    The end result is a large and powerful central government that controls every aspect of a country's resources, industries and citizens.

    The more large and powerful the government.
    The less free and empowered are it's people.


    Semper Fi
     
    padrehorn11 and scout3dave like this.
  28. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Dont' forget fascism.
     
    padrehorn11 likes this.
  29. ole tnhorn

    ole tnhorn Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    The top 25% of earners currently pay 86% of income taxes. Wonder where that 78% number came from?
    What has our government ever done efficiently and effectively that makes people entrust them with more control?
     
  30. sacatomato horn

    sacatomato horn Member Who Talks

    This article pretty much sums up what you're saying about the differences in cultures. Canadians more prone to use preventative care but if you get really sick you're better off here.
    I would like to see some reforms of healthcare but we don't need do a Bernie Blow Up of the whole private system to make improvements to access.
    http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/lessons-can-u-s-learn-canadian-health-care-system/
     
  31. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Have you not realized that people are stupid? You can get any damn answer you want from polls, depending on how the question is worded, and you can usually twist results to support whatever claim you make. Of course, we're talking hip so that number likely came out of his ass when he moved his head.
     
    TexanBlood and ole tnhorn like this.
  32. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Spot on. We need to reform our system, but, to switch to universal single payer healthcare, would be a financial and health disaster. Those with it, ration it, or put parameters on who can and cannot receive it. Where it's decent care, the taxes are extremely high, even on the middle class. Toss in that Americans, in general, are lazy fat asses that eat crap, exercise too little, and in general, just don't take care of themselves and it becomes clear it won't work. It would just be a matter of time, if enacted, before it begins to teeter on weak legs ready to crumble. At that point, someone, in a certain party, will almost certainly propose a solution of putting more money into it, while simultaneously saying it works, we just aren't doing it right yet. With time they'll start making demands on people to receive care. It's simply a bad idea. Sounds great, doesn't work. It definitely won't work in a country this size.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  33. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

  34. calvin farquhar

    calvin farquhar Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    padrehorn11 likes this.
  35. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    And effective.
     
  36. TEXBTP

    TEXBTP Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Speaking of doctors how far along in medical school are you now? Last I remember you were applying.
     
  37. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    No. You're absolutely spot on. Our conservatives are unique in the world. Thank you for helping me underscore my point.
     
  38. Hiphopster

    Hiphopster Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    2 parts baboon ass, 1 part white rhino horn, 3 parts tiger penis. Everyone knows this.
     
  39. TEXBTP

    TEXBTP Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    Eye of newt is always seems to be an ingredient.
     
    padrehorn11 and Hiphopster like this.
  40. SAhornfan

    SAhornfan Member Who Talks (A Lot!)

    You realize he didn't underscore it, right?
     
    RepOfTexas and padrehorn11 like this.

Share This Page