1st Democrat debate thread

JG

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I'm obviously not a Dem, but Kam did you guys a favor by taking out Biden this early in the process. The last two elections have been decided by African American turnout. The Pubs won the white vote by about 20% in both 2012 and 2016. The reason the Dems won in 2012 and lost in 2016 was because African American turnout fell from 13% to 10%. Biden is not the guy you want at the top of your ticket to get African Americans to the polls in 2020.
He’s not out, by any means.

I’m wondering, though, when one of the others embraces a more moderate stance. There is one guy seeking the center and 22 seeking the left. Attack Biden from the center, and let all those others split the progressives. Seems a winning stance to me.
 
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UTGrad91

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He’s not out, by any means.

I’m wondering, though, when one of the others embraces a more moderate stance. There is one guy seeking the center and 22 seeking the left. Attack Biden from the center, and let all those others split the progressives. Seems a winning stance to me.
There are some moderate Dem candidates like Michael Bennett, Tim Ryan, Joe Sestak, and John Hickenlooper. They just aren't gaining traction (and won't in the future) because the base is to their left.
 

JG

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There are some moderate Dem candidates like Michael Bennett, Tim Ryan, Joe Sestak, and John Hickenlooper. They just aren't gaining traction (and won't in the future) because the base is to their left.
There are plenty of non fat left progressives that will vote in the primary. One of these guys needs to step up.
 

TEXBTP

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I find it really hard to believe after that attack that Biden would ever trust her, and I can’t see her stepping down to be his subordinate.
Bush said Reagan’s economic policy was voodoo economics.
 

padrehorn11

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There are plenty of non fat left progressives that will vote in the primary. One of these guys needs to step up.
That makes sense, except the activist far Left gets all the attention with the large contribution of the MSM...which are mostly Leftist to whacked out crazy far, far Left. How much positive coverage would anyone more to the center than Biden get? And if the Media doesn't cover them, or goes negative on them, they stand no chance. I actually would love to see a center-left Democrat get the nomination. It would relieve me to think that if the Democrats won, while it wouldn't be my first choice, I'm, of course, convinced that the Country would fare far, far better than it would under any of the main Democrat contenders we have at this point. I thought for a little while that Buttigeig might be more center-left, and maybe he is at heart, but he's endorsing all the crazy ideas. I think he could move to the center a lot easier than Warren, Harris, or Sanders.. But the whole damn Democrat Party base and power structure seems too far into the left field weeds to allow it.

The thing is, the Democrats have basically abandoned free-market capitalism in favor of a 'Socialism' much farther left then the European model in even its most extreme form that exists today. And that, to my mind, is a recipe for disaster. There's a good reason that, though they have large 'safety nets', and more government than I am comfortable with, even the Nordic Nations are at the base free-market capitalist economies. True socialism simply doesn't work. Never has, never will.
 

UTGrad91

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There are plenty of non fat left progressives that will vote in the primary. One of these guys needs to step up.
All the left wing progressives I see are pretty hefty.
 
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UTGrad91

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That makes sense, except the activist far Left gets all the attention with the large contribution of the MSM...which are mostly Leftist to whacked out crazy far, far Left. How much positive coverage would anyone more to the center than Biden get? And if the Media doesn't cover them, or goes negative on them, they stand no chance. I actually would love to see a center-left Democrat get the nomination. It would relieve me to think that if the Democrats won, while it wouldn't be my first choice, I'm, of course, convinced that the Country would fare far, far better than it would under any of the main Democrat contenders we have at this point. I thought for a little while that Buttigeig might be more center-left, and maybe he is at heart, but he's endorsing all the crazy ideas. I think he could move to the center a lot easier than Warren, Harris, or Sanders.. But the whole damn Democrat Party base and power structure seems too far into the left field weeds to allow it.

The thing is, the Democrats have basically abandoned free-market capitalism in favor of a 'Socialism' much farther left then the European model in even its most extreme form that exists today. And that, to my mind, is a recipe for disaster. There's a good reason that, though they have large 'safety nets', and more government than I am comfortable with, even the Nordic Nations are at the base free-market capitalist economies. True socialism simply doesn't work. Never has, never will.
I think the result will be closer to Venezuela than Scandinavia if the Dems get their way.
 

ttaghorn

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Socialism works well if your leader is named, Idi Amin, Adolph Hitler, Fruitcake VEnezuela, Fidel Castro, Vladimir Putin, Rocketman of North Korea, or Manuel Noriega. Most of these guys will not allow for opposition to their government
 

UTGrad91

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In Scandinavia you have small well educated homogeneous populations which you don't have here. Wherever far left progressive policies have taken over in the US it's been a disaster and if we go full bore socialist it would be catastrophic. Think St. Louis, Baltimore, Detroit or even states like Illinios on steroids.
 

Doc Longhorn

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My parents were yellow dog Democrats and I matriculated from UT as one myself. But the realities of life quickly changed my views.
I didn't like Trump, Cruz was my man, but after watching the Communist debates I feel a lot better about my decision to leave that bunch of corrupt morons and vote for Trump.
 

Doc Longhorn

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There are plenty of non fat left progressives that will vote in the primary. One of these guys needs to step up.
Out of the 20 socialists in that debate not one of them can beat Trump. Hell, but for 2 or 3 of them, no one knows who they even are.
 

btown1110

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Because they aren't really socialist. They're social democracies and the private sector still features prominently. You also have a largely homogenous population whose roots are from a culture that was very much focused on everyone helping each other in a community. Beyond that, Scandinavian countries are moving AWAY from the more socialist policies as they're incredibly difficult to fund without crazy high tax rates.
 

calvin farquhar

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Their version of socialism isn't based on the social democracies of the Nordics. Their version is more akin to Vz and in the case of Bernie, Russia. Kamala has readily admitted takeovers of a number of private sectors to govt. ownership. Bernie wants everything govt. owned and he's not a fan of individual property rights. You may hate the current guy, but he loves your liberty and freedom and will fight to protect it. The current choices on the left love their power. How far they get depends on who controls congress. Imagine a broader group of Spartacus, AOCs, Omars and Tlaibs running the show. They'd skyrocket taxes (on everyone), take control of many private industries, destroy the economy through terrible policy or plain old stupidity. It would go south fast if they were in control IMO.

That said, I think there are also a number of dems that aren't quite that radical or if they are they are smart enough to try to stand on the fence to keep the extremes happy, the moderates happy, and themselves elected. So pushing through more extreme policy might not happen, but I can't say that with confidence. Just look at many of the dem controlled cities.
 

padrehorn11

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Looks like CNN is going to do a live lottery to determine who gets a spot at the big boy table in this months debate. NBA worthy maybe.

Thats really funny when you think about it. And of course the lottery needs to be weighted so we get fair representation of all minorities. But since it looks like Harris get's the Black slot, I bet Spartucus wishes they'd have one slot available for the winner of some gladiator stuff. Great entertainment ! Bread and circuses!

Castro would be really pissed off if Beto won the Hispanic slot. I guess Warren gets the Native American slot by default, though I can see everyone getting a DNA test, and probably someone else would beat her on that. Buttigeig gets the gay slot unless someone else decides to "come out" just to get a chance at a seat. I'm pretty sure Yang wins the Asian seat at the table.

The old white dude slot would be...hell who am I kidding , there ain't gonna be no old white dude slot, just the wildest hair slot so Bernie gets a place. All I can seeing Biden getting would be the groper slot, and I'm not sure that's one they want, so maybe he could get the mentally challenged slot.

Sister Moonbeam oughtta be there too, IMO, but then I get a kick out of those types. You ought to see me walk into a 'crystal power' store. There used to be one in Taos that locked the door when they saw me coming across the square,...they claimed I had bad vibrations. :)
 
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Doc Longhorn

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Because they aren't really socialist. They're social democracies and the private sector still features prominently. You also have a largely homogenous population whose roots are from a culture that was very much focused on everyone helping each other in a community. Beyond that, Scandinavian countries are moving AWAY from the more socialist policies as they're incredibly difficult to fund without crazy high tax rates.
Social Democrat? What the hell is that actually?