2020 Democratic Primaries

TOK2000

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I wonder if Reparations is going to make it into the 1st Democratic Debate. They are having a big fight today over it in the House Judiciary meeting.
 

TexasPalladin

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I wonder if Reparations is going to make it into the 1st Democratic Debate. They are having a big fight today over it in the House Judiciary meeting.
Reparations have been in place since 1964 when LBJ created the Welfare State (AKA "The Great Society" with a running total of over 7 Trillion Dollars and counting.


Semper Fi
 
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UTGrad91

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I wonder if Reparations is going to make it into the 1st Democratic Debate. They are having a big fight today over it in the House Judiciary meeting.
Reparations will be on the Dem platform for sure. The couple trillion $$$ for reparations is pocket change compared to the cost of other Dem platform items like the GND and medicare for all.
 

calvin farquhar

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Reparations will be on the Dem platform for sure. The couple trillion $$$ for reparations is pocket change compared to the cost of other Dem platform items like the GND and medicare for all.
Yet, more idiotic.

But panderers gonna pander.
 

sacatomato horn

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Beto! came out with his Big Idea on NBC last night:

A New Voting Rights Act: Same day registration, automatic voter registration, abolish gerrymandering, abolish PACs and "big money" in politics.

I thought he raised a lot of money in his senatorial campaign last year. Maybe that's ok because it came in small chunks and isn't "big" money.
 

TOK2000

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Reparations will be on the Dem platform for sure. The couple trillion $$$ for reparations is pocket change compared to the cost of other Dem platform items like the GND and medicare for all.
I wonder if this will be a millstone around the Dems neck during the campaign. I doubt if the majority of Americans want to see Reparations, even many democrats. But the Left wing Dems are growing in number and strength and could force it to the forefront. I note that this panel was suggesting they form a committee to study it, how Congressional..form a committee, that does likely mean it gets buried.
 
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UTGrad91

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I wonder if this will be a millstone around the Dems neck during the campaign. I doubt if the majority of Americans want to see Reparations, even many democrats. But the Left wing Dems are growing in number and strength and could force it to the forefront. I note that this panel was suggesting they form a committee to study it, how Congressional..form a committee, that does likely mean it gets buried.
They'll pay lip service to this to assuage their base. Public is overwhelmingly against it so it will never become law:

 

padrehorn11

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They have to be pulling our legs, right? Right?! Insanity.
My positive view is that it sure looks to me like the Democrats keep trying harder all the time to lose the 2020 Presidential election. Why on earth else would they be rushing to bring up an issue that polls across the board say is unpopular with 70% of the general population, and likely more so among the people most likely to vote. This is not an issue that will bring them any more votes than they would have gotten if they'd just 'favorably ignored' it, rather than rushing to publicly and loudly support it. As you say, it's insanity, but I'm happy they are wasting time on issues like this and impeachment, rather than issues that might actually resonate with Anglo and Hispanic working class voters, and older voters who are the key to winning the Midwest, Florida and Arizona. Of course, other than "I'm not Trump" I don't think they actually have many issues they can work with to capture more voters who aren't already favorably disposed to them. And unless the turnout patterns of blacks and millenials change drastiacally they have to swing some of those.

It's a long time between now and the election, and Trump will have a hard time, as any President would< if the economy goes into recession. But if I'm one of his political consultants, stuff like this has me doing the Happy Dance 42490
 

JG

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My positive view is that it sure looks to me like the Democrats keep trying harder all the time to lose the 2020 Presidential election. Why on earth else would they be rushing to bring up an issue that polls across the board say is unpopular with 70% of the general population, and likely more so among the people most likely to vote. This is not an issue that will bring them any more votes than they would have gotten if they'd just 'favorably ignored' it, rather than rushing to publicly and loudly support it. As you say, it's insanity, but I'm happy they are wasting time on issues like this and impeachment, rather than issues that might actually resonate with Anglo and Hispanic working class voters, and older voters who are the key to winning the Midwest, Florida and Arizona. Of course, other than "I'm not Trump" I don't think they actually have many issues they can work with to capture more voters who aren't already favorably disposed to them. And unless the turnout patterns of blacks and millenials change drastiacally they have to swing some of those.

It's a long time between now and the election, and Trump will have a hard time, as any President would< if the economy goes into recession. But if I'm one of his political consultants, stuff like this has me doing the Happy Dance View attachment 42490
This is the problem with our primary system. Before you get to the general you have to win the votes of hardened party bases.

That system increasingly means moderates need not apply. It’s not just the Dems...it’s how we got Trump too.

If we had jungle primaries, guys like Trump and some the wackier Dems wouldn’t make it out of NH. We would wind up with elections between guys like Huntsman and Kasich against people like Webb or Biden.

It makes too much sense.
 

sacatomato horn

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This is the problem with our primary system. Before you get to the general you have to win the votes of hardened party bases.

That system increasingly means moderates need not apply. It’s not just the Dems...it’s how we got Trump too.

If we had jungle primaries, guys like Trump and some the wackier Dems wouldn’t make it out of NH. We would wind up with elections between guys like Huntsman and Kasich against people like Webb or Biden.

It makes too much sense.
California has had Jungle Primaries since 2012 and it has further polarized the electorate. Feinstein had to drift to the left in her 2018 senatorial election as she was running against far left Kevin De Leon.

California is a much deeper shade of blue than Texas is red, but in a purple state, a general primary might backfire. For instance, Ted Cruz could see it as a way to challenge Donald Trump. Say Trump and Cruz each got 25% of the Texas primary vote and 5 democratic candidates split the 50% liberal vote. Using the Ca model, Texas would have Cruz and Trump on the general election ballot in November. (California disallows write ins that weren't a top 2 candidate in the primaries). I can't see my liberal Texas friends liking this outcome.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/californias-jungle-primary-might-screw-over-both-parties/
 

JG

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California has had Jungle Primaries since 2012 and it has further polarized the electorate. Feinstein had to drift to the left in her 2018 senatorial election as she was running against far left Kevin De Leon.

California is a much deeper shade of blue than Texas is red, but in a purple state, a general primary might backfire. For instance, Ted Cruz could see it as a way to challenge Donald Trump. Say Trump and Cruz each got 25% of the Texas primary vote and 5 democratic candidates split the 50% liberal vote. Using the Ca model, Texas would have Cruz and Trump on the general election ballot in November. (California disallows write ins that weren't a top 2 candidate in the primaries). I can't see my liberal Texas friends liking this outcome.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/californias-jungle-primary-might-screw-over-both-parties/
Yeah it would have to be a national primary.
 

calvin farquhar

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They have to be pulling our legs, right? Right?! Insanity.

The committee discussing this, I believe Sheila Jackson Lee (D(ummycrat)) is part of it, are going back as far as 1619. We weren't even a ****ing country in 1619. In fact, we were really British Colonies. So, if we're going back that far, send the bill to Britain for years, 1619-1783. From 1783-1863, I guess you could try to hold today's citizens accountable, but, I will laugh my ass off at you. After 1863, since slavery was outlawed, you'll need to have a conversation that with those families that continued breaking the law.

Also, how does it work for the black slave owners? Do they get an exemption for being black? Are they going to be held accountable while at the same time receiving benefits?

I think we should exempt any and all of those families/descendants of families, that arrived after 1863. Better yet, let the guilt ridden, like the JGs of the world, pay for it.

JMO.
 

SAhornfan

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The committee discussing this, I believe Sheila Jackson Lee (D(ummycrat)) is part of it, are going back as far as 1619. We weren't even a ****ing country in 1619. In fact, we were really British Colonies. So, if we're going back that far, send the bill to Britain for years, 1619-1783. From 1783-1863, I guess you could try to hold today's citizens accountable, but, I will laugh my ass off at you. After 1863, since slavery was outlawed, you'll need to have a conversation that with those families that continued breaking the law.

Also, how does it work for the black slave owners? Do they get an exemption for being black? Are they going to be held accountable while at the same time receiving benefits?

I think we should exempt any and all of those families/descendants of families, that arrived after 1863. Better yet, let the guilt ridden, like the JGs of the world, pay for it.

JMO.
This is typical of the biggest idiot in congress. I can’t imagine how stupid her constituents must be to keep electing her.
 

padrehorn11

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calvin farquhar

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Biden getting the snot kicked out of him for talking about his great working relationship with other dem senators that were pro-segregationist, pointing out the party's racist past for all of America to see. Corey Booker, aka Spartacus, aka The Great Bald Hope, is one of those bashing him while simultaneously asking him to hold his beer as he plans to meet with Louis "I hate America, jews, white people and America" Farrakhan. The irony clearly lost on him.
 
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calvin farquhar

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calvin farquhar

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Coleman Hughes thoughts on reparations. Powerful, well said. Of course, he was booed somewhat after he spoke and Cohen said he was presumptive, but hey, he had the balls to go before the committee, who, by all accounts, are going through the motion before doing what they want.

 
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bodieman

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She is a total moron, but Rep. Hank Johnson has got to be close to the dumbest person in the entire U.S., not just Congress. (He's infamous for lots of other really, really stupid things but this one cracks me up.)

"My fear is that the whole island of Guam will tip over and capsize."--U.S. Representative Hank Johnson
Glad someone didn’t forget Hank Johnson!

As far as skills training, I think it’s a great idea. I can’t speak to the pay or upward mobility of every skilled trade, but I’ve worked in the trucking industry for almost 20 years and the demand for CDL drivers is unprecedented.

The barrier to entry isn’t that difficult and many companies offer assistance in terms of CDL acquisition and ongoing training.

Right now, a driver with 1-2 years of verifiable experience, a relatively safe driving record, and an acceptable criminal history, will have companies competing to hire them at anywhere from 60-90k per year. Experienced and proven drivers can make well over 100k.


The skills training platform, though practical, isn’t a winning message. It’s hard to convince a voting base that the best option is to learn a skilled trade when your opponent is saying that everyone should get to go to college and be the boss.
 

sacatomato horn

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Well, if they are, Warren would probably want to include her new thing, gay reparations. Anyone else have a reparations grievance?

From a political point of view, this seems like a bad move by Warren. LGBQT are among the most affluent segments in the country. Reparations to that group might cause a lot of negative reactions from minority democrat primary voters lower on the socio-economic scale. Seems like this just compounds the problems created by her fraudulent Cherokee claims.

From a finance point of view, the past practice of prohibiting gay adoptions is a significant advantage given the cost of raising a child. At least for gay couples that would have liked to have had children, that would cancel out any disadvantages they suffered from not being able to file jointly.
 
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calvin farquhar

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From a political point of view, this seems like a bad move by Warren. LGBQT are among the most affluent segments in the country. Reparations to that group might cause a lot of negative reactions from minority democrat primary voters lower on the socio-economic scale. Seems like this just compounds the problems created by her fraudulent Cherokee claims.

From a finance point of view, the past practice of prohibiting gay adoptions is a significant advantage given the cost of raising a child. At least for gay couples that would have liked to have had children, that would cancel out any disadvantages they suffered from not being able to file jointly.

She's desperate for attention and needs a boost in the polls. I guess she thinks this will do it.
 
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SAhornfan

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She's desperate for attention and needs a boost in the polls. I guess she thinks this will do it.
It apparently works. Our Mayor pandered to the LBGTQRSTLMNOP community and barely got re-elected. The San Antonio Express News does so many stories on their plight that I suggested a weekly supplement that has all the articles in one place, so those of us who don't give a **** about someone's sexual preference or gender identification, can read the news that is important to the other 95% of San Antonio.
 

TOK2000

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I see that Beto has proposed a War Tax where if you don't have a relative in the service you have to pay a tax to go towards their healthcare/rehab. It's not a big tax I don't think any household will have to pay more that a couple hundred dollars.

Biden going to repeal all of Trump's Tax reforms/cuts....I wonder if he realizes that it will cast as raising taxes by at least some of the media and all of the Pubs.

Warren want's reparations for Gays

Mixed bunch of Dems want reparations for Slavery.

Those all seem like issues that the mainstream voter will have a hard time getting behind.
 

TexasPalladin

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I see that Beto has proposed a War Tax where if you don't have a relative in the service you have to pay a tax to go towards their healthcare/rehab. It's not a big tax I don't think any household will have to pay more that a couple hundred dollars.

Biden going to repeal all of Trump's Tax reforms/cuts....I wonder if he realizes that it will cast as raising taxes by at least some of the media and all of the Pubs.

Warren want's reparations for Gays

Mixed bunch of Dems want reparations for Slavery.

Those all seem like issues that the mainstream voter will have a hard time getting behind.
The biggest takeaway I am seeing from ALL of the Democratic Candidates is to give everyone everything for nothing, along with a plan for taxations to whatever levels it would require to pay for all of this "Free Stuff".
While at the same time advocating wholesale slaughter of the economy with "Climate Change" initiatives that would destroy the entire infrastructure.
Yet.....
I haven't seen any of these idiots actually address:
Job creation.
Business creating programs.
Enforcing the law.
Or anything else that resembles a platform of anything other than a complete governmental takeover of all aspects of the lives of the American people.
Damned people are absolutely nuts.


Semper Fi
 

calvin farquhar

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I see that Beto has proposed a War Tax where if you don't have a relative in the service you have to pay a tax to go towards their healthcare/rehab. It's not a big tax I don't think any household will have to pay more that a couple hundred dollars.

Biden going to repeal all of Trump's Tax reforms/cuts....I wonder if he realizes that it will cast as raising taxes by at least some of the media and all of the Pubs.

Warren want's reparations for Gays

Mixed bunch of Dems want reparations for Slavery.

Those all seem like issues that the mainstream voter will have a hard time getting behind.
Someone tell Beto I already pay taxes to help with veterans healthcare/rehab.
 

TexasPalladin

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Someone tell Beto I already pay taxes to help with veterans healthcare/rehab.
They want it ALL!!!
Then they want to call it a "Entitlement" that needs to be cut in order to pay for things like:
Illegal Immigrants healthcare, education and housing.
Reparations.
Free everything.
(Remember the limousine liberal mantra...."Everyone has to pay their fair share! We will determine how to spend it for you".)
And don't forget...."You didn't build it"
Pffft!!!


Semper Fi
 

TexasPalladin

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And while I am on this rant.
Everyone of these assholes keep talking about:
"A war on Wall Street" or make "Wall Street" pay for everything.

And what really pisses me off is that they are getting away with it while neglecting to disclose the fact that about 50% of the assets and market called "Wall Street" is composed of 401K's, Pension Funds and and other financial instruments that are primarily owned by the majority of working class Americans.
And what is really sad is that people are too damned uninformed and stupid to realize that they are the ones who are going to get robbed without even understanding how it is happening.
And I haven't even scratched the surface here.
Guys like @bHero and @padrehorn11 are better suited to go into detail of just how dangerous these kind of programs will be to the average person who has a 401K, retirement accounts or dividend paying stocks for financial security.


Semper Fi
 

bHero

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And while I am on this rant.
Everyone of these assholes keep talking about:
"A war on Wall Street" or make "Wall Street" pay for everything.

And what really pisses me off is that they are getting away with it while neglecting to disclose the fact that about 50% of the assets and market called "Wall Street" is composed of 401K's, Pension Funds and and other financial instruments that are primarily owned by the majority of working class Americans.
And what is really sad is that people are too damned uninformed and stupid to realize that they are the ones who are going to get robbed without even understanding how it is happening.
And I haven't even scratched the surface here.
Guys like @bHero and @padrehorn11 are better suited to go into detail of just how dangerous these kind of programs will be to the average person who has a 401K, retirement accounts or dividend paying stocks for financial security.


Semper Fi
I keep waiting for the realization that once our economy become driven by pension funds, people won't be able to retire comfortably ever again. My generation will have to start living and dying again within the same households.
 

calvin farquhar

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Bernie's all in on the $1.5 trillion college debt cancellation. With a child headed to college I think I'll vote for him and load up on college debt with fingers crossed you stupid ****ers will pay for it.

He's so stupid he doesn't realize the government getting involved in the first place is why they have the debt.

 

padrehorn11

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The biggest takeaway I am seeing from ALL of the Democratic Candidates is to give everyone everything for nothing, along with a plan for taxations to whatever levels it would require to pay for all of this "Free Stuff".
While at the same time advocating wholesale slaughter of the economy with "Climate Change" initiatives that would destroy the entire infrastructure.
Yet.....
I haven't seen any of these idiots actually address:
Job creation.
Business creating programs.
Enforcing the law.
Or anything else that resembles a platform of anything other than a complete governmental takeover of all aspects of the lives of the American people.
Damned people are absolutely nuts.


Semper Fi
Along those lines here's the plan to ban fossil fuel by Washington State Governor Jay Inslee.

https://www.investing.com/news/politics-news/democratic-candidate-outlines-plan-to-end-to-us-fossil-fuels-1905604

If he's going to ban fracking across the country, along with his other plans to quickly and greatly decrease oil production, he better get rid of almost all the vehicless that burn gasoline and diesel first, or we'll become highly dependent on the Persian Gulf crude very quickly. Without fracking, within a few years we'd be back to producing just enough domestic crude to meet the demand for that portion of all the crude we refine that is used in feedstocks for platic, etc. (I mean totally in less than five and starting immediately). That means all the fossil fuel burning vehicles (cars, trucjks, buses, planes, and water craft) would depend entirely on imported oil. 1973 writ large. But it's worse becausse we also need fracking and pipelines to produce natural gas, which we use to produce about 35% of our electricity (we also use a good deal of natural gas and petroleum residential heating. And see, shale oil and gas wells deplete very quickly, so without fracking new wells, production would drop precipitously.

Not to mention that we are currently producing about $250 billion worth of oil/yr and rising. Also even at these low prices because we have a glut (for now) we are producing anothe roughly $250 billion worth of natural gas. We export a significant portion of both. Enough to drop the GDP. So just that is about 2.5% of GDP, not counting all the other aspects (cost of drilling, production, refining--and of course the salaries and royalty income for Americans involved).

Over 40% of that Fourth Quarter U.S. GDP growth in 2018 was due to the oil and gas industry. I **** you not.

The domestic oil and gas industry in total contributes far more to the U.S. GDP than Wshington State ($577 billion). Texas produces over $1.8 trillion in GDP and about 10% of that is oil and gas. If you added in the indirect dependence of other sectors of the economy on oil and gas it's significantly larger. In short the U.S and Texas greatly would be far better off economically by dumping Washington State into the Pacific (I'm sure that we could quickly replace the important components of Wahsington's GDP---Information Technology is the largest) than following Governor Inslee's drastic prescriptions.

Do these people ever do a little basic research and do even basic cost/benefit analysis when they come up with these plans? HAHAHAHAHAH, that'll be the day.
 
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padrehorn11

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Bernie's all in on the $1.5 trillion college debt cancellation. With a child headed to college I think I'll vote for him and load up on college debt with fingers crossed you stupid ****ers will pay for it.

He's so stupid he doesn't realize the government getting involved in the first place is why they have the debt.

So he want's to add a .5% transaction fee on stock trades to cover the cost. That's addition to the extra 3.8% tax on investment income that was stuck on to capital Gains Trades to help finance Obamacare, except Bernie's fee will hit losses too. Now double the tax rates on people who actually pay taxes, and then tax your net worth at 2%/yr (oh, Sen. Warren wants to start with people worth over $10 million, but if you think the cutoff will will stay that high, I got a bridge in Brookly to sell you).

Hell, no wonder we're going to need to pay everyone a UBI, who the hell is going to bother with working? Oh but it will only hit the rich, you say. And just who starts and runs the companies who employ the rest? And as @TexasPalladin points out when "Wall Street" goes tits up, what happens to the 401k's, SEP's and pension funds? Hmmmmm? Of course, with no one working, and lots of people saying **** it, I'm giving everything away rather than pay taxes, the government will have to start printing completely bogus money, rather than partially bogus money backed by the debt financed by our import dollars returning home via China buying government debt (ooops, maybe a little problem with Unintended Conequences there). Ahhh, we'll have the paradise that is Venezuela right here at home. The Democrat Dream come true.
 

sacatomato horn

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Sanders along with all other hard leftists in the Dem primary field are fond of pointing out the successful socialist model in the Nordic nations and ignore or downplay the failures in Venezuela and elsewhere. But this article and the research it references demonstrates those countries "protect property rights more aggressively than the US, exercise less control over private enterprise, permit greater concentration in banking sector, and distribute a smaller share of their total income to workers".

Regarding universal health care, Bernie's Medicare For All purports to model these countries, but all of them require extensive cost sharing via co pays and deductibles. Bernie's plan is pure single payer government funded, no co pay, no deductible health benefits, which none of the Nordic countries provide.

The Democrat free stuff (healthcare, pre K, college education, illegal alien benefits, family leave, etc.) model is not based on the Nordic model. That model entails a lot of capitalism and pro-business policies, a lot of taxation on middle class wages and spending, minimal reliance on corporate taxation and plenty of co-pays and deductibles in its healthcare system. Bernie and Elizabeth are puffing Venezuela, not Sweden.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/democrats-use-nordic-nations-as-models-of-socialism-they-actually-involve-a-lot-of-capitalism/2019/06/24/b6d9bbdc-945c-11e9-b58a-a6a9afaa0e3e_story.html?utm_term=.0161b62ffd8a
 

calvin farquhar

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Sanders along with all other hard leftists in the Dem primary field are fond of pointing out the successful socialist model in the Nordic nations and ignore or downplay the failures in Venezuela and elsewhere. But this article and the research it references demonstrates those countries "protect property rights more aggressively than the US, exercise less control over private enterprise, permit greater concentration in banking sector, and distribute a smaller share of their total income to workers".

Regarding universal health care, Bernie's Medicare For All purports to model these countries, but all of them require extensive cost sharing via co pays and deductibles. Bernie's plan is pure single payer government funded, no co pay, no deductible health benefits, which none of the Nordic countries provide.

The Democrat free stuff (healthcare, pre K, college education, illegal alien benefits, family leave, etc.) model is not based on the Nordic model. That model entails a lot of capitalism and pro-business policies, a lot of taxation on middle class wages and spending, minimal reliance on corporate taxation and plenty of co-pays and deductibles in its healthcare system. Bernie and Elizabeth are puffing Venezuela, not Sweden.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/democrats-use-nordic-nations-as-models-of-socialism-they-actually-involve-a-lot-of-capitalism/2019/06/24/b6d9bbdc-945c-11e9-b58a-a6a9afaa0e3e_story.html?utm_term=.0161b62ffd8a
If people took the time to dig into the details they would understand Bernie is a commie, plain and simple. He uses the Nordic countries as his example because it looks better than his reality. Bernie is all in on state controlled everything right down to losing property rights. The Nordics are not that at all.

He likes to call the Nordics democratic socialists as an emphasis on the socialist part, attempting to distract the lazy people from what his true intentions are. However, the Nordics are actually social democracies. Capitalistic countries with social safety nets and programs. They've been that for only 45 years, relying on the fruits of their capitalism from the 100 years prior.

Basically, it's not an apples to apples comparison as your post states. But it sounds really good and people want to believe it to be true. If Bernie were elected, and he had his guys in power, it would be a god awful nightmare very quickly. The people that live in the suburbs would become modern day Kulaks.
 

acreativeusername

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Bernie's all in on the $1.5 trillion college debt cancellation. With a child headed to college I think I'll vote for him and load up on college debt with fingers crossed you stupid ****ers will pay for it.

He's so stupid he doesn't realize the government getting involved in the first place is why they have the debt.

Cancel my soon-to-be medical school debt please :)
 
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