2020 Democratic Primaries

padrehorn11

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We need a guest worker program Workers can come here and work but they have to leave the families at home. They have to pay income taxes and they aren't eligible for any of our social programs.

That's a win-win for everyone. We get the workers without the added social costs and the workers get to make good money and send some home.
Well, I'd argue that good, hardworking people and their families are not social net costs, they are the best resources a country can have. So I'd give your guest workers a chance to bring their families after say 2-3 years of working steady and with no criminal record. One, we're going to need more young people to keep this Country from eventually going the way of Japan and a lot of Europe, where the lack of young citizens is turning out to be a problem. And two, I'm biased, because my Son- in-Law is a first generation American who is the child of Mexicans who first came in on green cards to work. MY SIL though was born here, got a college degree and works in finance, and has an amazing amount of all-round knowledge because he's so intellectually curious. And my grandson is of course also their Grandson. And three, again, young people are much more commonly assets than costs, especially after we educate the young ones.

Down in he Valley I also helped a young Dreamer get a Degree from UT Brownsville and go to work as a medical technician, which is another job we need more people to fill, so I'm in favor of DACA too.

Now are all stories going to be like that? Of course not, but if they don't work out we aren't stuck with them. BTW, my SIL doesn't care for Trump personally any more than I do, but he's a Republican and will vote for Trump because the Democratic Socialists scare him even more than me, since he'll be around a lot longer than me and can see what they'll do to his and his son's future.

You see here that I'm not so much a Republican as I am a free-market Capitalist, and I see good workers as assets.
 
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calvin farquhar

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Those are two different policies. No one said the insurance would be free.
Were you watching the debates last week. Have you taken a peek at what the Cali gov just signed into law in his state. Doesn't crazy california lead the way for the rest of the nation? Do you really think my forced participation isn't designed to pay for those who will get it free.
 
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TEXBTP

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Were you watching the debates last week. Have you taken a peek at what the Cali gov just signed into law in his state. Doesn't crazy california lead the way for the rest of the nation? Do you really think my forced participation isn't designed to pay for those who will get it free.
No. California is its own thing. They may have some good ideas but they aren’t a leading indicator for Democratic policy. Hey are paying for their state run healthcare out of their own pockets through their govt surplus.
Once Medicare for all is enacted the old policy of the ACA will be obsolete. They are two completely different policies.

Moreover that little meme conflates the two as if the democrats wants to give healthcare to undocumented workers are the expense of other Americans. I know the conservatives propaganda machine is tiring out op Ed’s stating this, TP posted one last week.
 

calvin farquhar

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No. California is its own thing. They may have some good ideas but they aren’t a leading indicator for Democratic policy. Hey are paying for their state run healthcare out of their own pockets through their govt surplus.
Once Medicare for all is enacted the old policy of the ACA will be obsolete. They are two completely different policies.

Moreover that little meme conflates the two as if the democrats wants to give healthcare to undocumented workers are the expense of other Americans. I know the conservatives propaganda machine is tiring out op Ed’s stating this, TP posted one last week.
Tax payer funded free healthcare for illegals is what it is. Spin it however you want, but it's law in Cali and unquestionably the direction of the party.
 
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TEXBTP

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Tax payer funded free healthcare for illegals is what it is. Spin it however you want, but it's law in Cali and unquestionably the direction of the party.
Will be the law of the country. Maybe not now but it’s coming. Don’t fight it, lean into it.
 

Iz of Texas

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Moreover that little meme conflates the two as if the democrats wants to give healthcare to undocumented workers are the expense of other Americans.
Ignoring some of the points in your post, who, exactly, is providing the funding for health insurance for undocumented workers?
 

UTGrad91

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Ignoring some of the points in your post, who, exactly, is providing the funding for health insurance for undocumented workers?
Libs believe that money grows on trees and that's where all the funding for their social programs comes from.
 
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Iz of Texas

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The state of CA
Was your post disputing the point that "Democrats want to give healthcare to give healthcare to undocumented workers at the expense of other Americans " specific to undocumented workers in California and "other Americans" (I suppose resident in California)? If so I missed that. And if it was clear from earlier posts I apologize as I didn't read those as closely.

Follow up question. From where does the state of California derive income if not taxpayers? Oil and gas royalties? Other?
 

TEXBTP

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Was your post disputing the point that "Democrats want to give healthcare to give healthcare to undocumented workers at the expense of other Americans " specific to undocumented workers in California and "other Americans" (I suppose resident in California)? If so I missed that. And if it was clear from earlier posts I apologize as I didn't read those as closely.

Follow up question. From where does the state of California derive income if not taxpayers? Oil and gas royalties? Other?
No my point was disputing the federal Medicare for all policy vs the ACA individual mandate. They are two separate policies. The meme conflates them.
It makes no difference who pays ca taxes. Once it’s in the gov treasury, the money belongs to the govt. what it chooses to do with it is the purview of their elected officials.
 

TEXBTP

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You're out of your ****ing mind if you think the United States of America is going to have a health care system like Canada or UK. I will fight it tooth and nail.
Maybe, but I see it getting enacted after a major election. There will be support for whatever bill comes out of Congress,
 

TEXBTP

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You're out of your ****ing mind if you think the United States of America is going to have a health care system like Canada or UK. I will fight it tooth and nail.
I guess we will see. Public support seems to be moving in that direction. I think there will be something in the next 10 years.
 

calvin farquhar

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No my point was disputing the federal Medicare for all policy vs the ACA individual mandate. They are two separate policies. The meme conflates them.
It makes no difference who pays ca taxes. Once it’s in the gov treasury, the money belongs to the govt. what it chooses to do with it is the purview of their elected officials.
You're doing your best JG impersonation.
 

Iz of Texas

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No my point was disputing the federal Medicare for all policy vs the ACA individual mandate. They are two separate policies. The meme conflates them.
It makes no difference who pays ca taxes. Once it’s in the gov treasury, the money belongs to the govt. what it chooses to do with it is the purview of their elected officials.
Ok. While those policies are closely related I agree they are separate. As long as there is an acknowledgment that when "the government " pays for something, what we really mean is the tax payers to that government (whether it be state or federal) are "paying" for it. Ignoring of course other income brought in to the government. Which is minuscule relatively speaking.

The whole Obama "you didn't build that" still sticks in my craw. Obviously separate from this discussion.
 
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Duke Silver

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I guess we will see. Public support seems to be moving in that direction. I think there will be something in the next 10 years.
Maybe a public option, but there is absolutely zero chance that the 150 million or so people on their employer's health insurance are going just join all the poors on medicaid willingly. Never. Going. To. Happen. The people of this country know too well that the government can't do **** correctly. They aren't outsourcing their health to it.
 

UTGrad91

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Well, I'd argue that good, hardworking people and their families are not social net costs, they are the best resources a country can have. So I'd give your guest workers a chance to bring their families after say 2-3 years of working steady and with no criminal record. One, we're going to need more young people to keep this Country from eventually going the way of Japan and a lot of Europe, where the lack of young citizens is turning out to be a problem. And two, I'm biased, because my Son- in-Law is a first generation American who is the child of Mexicans who first came in on green cards to work. MY SIL though was born here, got a college degree and works in finance, and has an amazing amount of all-round knowledge because he's so intellectually curious. And my grandson is of course also their Grandson. And three, again, young people are much more commonly assets than costs, especially after we educate the young ones.

Down in he Valley I also helped a young Dreamer get a Degree from UT Brownsville and go to work as a medical technician, which is another job we need more people to fill, so I'm in favor of DACA too.

Now are all stories going to be like that? Of course not, but if they don't work out we aren't stuck with them. BTW, my SIL doesn't care for Trump personally any more than I do, but he's a Republican and will vote for Trump because the Democratic Socialists scare him even more than me, since he'll be around a lot longer than me and can see what they'll do to his and his son's future.

You see here that I'm not so much a Republican as I am a free-market Capitalist, and I see good workers as assets.
I look at immigration as essentially a job interview with the US being the potential employer and immigrants being the job candidates. Take people with high net worth, or highly skilled individuals like doctors, scientists, engineers, etc and admit them. People like your dreamer would be admitted based on our needs as well. The bottom line is that we have an excess of people who want to come here and thus we are in an "employer's market" so to speak. In terms of temporary workers, there are plenty who are either single or willing to leaver their families behind so we get the benefit of their work without the social costs.
 

TEXBTP

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Maybe a public option, but there is absolutely zero chance that the 150 million or so people on their employer's health insurance are going just join all the poors on medicaid willingly. Never. Going. To. Happen. The people of this country know too well that the government can't do **** correctly. They aren't outsourcing their health to it.
Yes, some form like the public option. I'm fairly sure not even the Euros or Canadians have gotten rid of private insurance.
 

eodhorn

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No my point was disputing the federal Medicare for all policy vs the ACA individual mandate. They are two separate policies. The meme conflates them.
It makes no difference who pays ca taxes. Once it’s in the gov treasury, the money belongs to the govt. what it chooses to do with it is the purview of their elected officials.
Seems like when a government taxes it’s people irresponsibly, and uses that money for whatever it wants, it doesn’t tend to sit well with folks. Hell a little something happened in 1775 over taxation, oh yeah it lead to the formation of this country. That taxation would be considered much more responsible than paying for non-citizens pouring in your country by the thousands when you can’t even figure out how to cover all citizens with healthcare. History is a funny thing how it tends to repeat itself when retards don’t learn the lessons of the past. Folks we are now living in a time where our government is Imperial England.
 
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JG

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Seems like when a government taxes it’s people irresponsibly, and uses that money for whatever it wants, it doesn’t tend to sit well with folks. Hell a little something happened in 1775 over taxation, oh yeah it lead to the formation of this country. That taxation would be considered much more responsible than paying for non-citizens pouring in your country by the thousands when you can’t even figure out how to cover all citizens with healthcare. History is a funny thing how it tends to repeat itself when retards don’t learn the lessons of the past. Folks we are now living in a time where our government is Imperial England.
Not remotely.

The colonists’ beef wasn’t taxation, it was taxation without representation.

We have representation. We have the right to decide how much taxation we want and where it goes. Those were the rights the colonials fought for.
 

padrehorn11

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I look at immigration as essentially a job interview with the US being the potential employer and immigrants being the job candidates. Take people with high net worth, or highly skilled individuals like doctors, scientists, engineers, etc and admit them. People like your dreamer would be admitted based on our needs as well. The bottom line is that we have an excess of people who want to come here and thus we are in an "employer's market" so to speak. In terms of temporary workers, there are plenty who are either single or willing to leaver their families behind so we get the benefit of their work without the social costs.
You call immigrant families net social costs. Strictly speaking, in their early years here that's true but they become assets as they mature and are educated. Let's examine some factual articles that support my view.

I'm an unabashed Free-market Capitalist, as I've said before and the American Enterprise Institute is one of the most pro free-market capitalist find sources you are going to find.

Forbes does publish some articles I think lean Leftish, but still, it's not exactly a Socialist rag

How about small business startups, the real heart of free-market capitaism in my, perhaps biased opinion, being sel-employed or micro business owner since 1979. Let's look at Latino owned businesses mostly owned immigrants or 2nd and third generation Hispanic immigrants. Again from a source not generally thought of as far left.


I think your view is not fact based in this matter. I think letting more hardworking unskilled labor enter--and where I differ from you--after a trial period bring their families and go on to attain citizenship would be good for our Country over the years. And I think it's the better moral position. That's what I call win-win.
 
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UTGrad91

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You call immigrant families net social costs. Strictly speaking, in their early years here that's true but they become assets as they mature and are educated. Let's examine some factual articles that support my view.

I'm an unabashed Free-market Capitalist, as I've said before and the American Enterprise Institute is one of the most pro free-market capitalist find sources you are going to find.
Maybe in the long run unskilled immigrants with large families will be a net benefit but the others I listed before will benefit us right away and to a larger degree. Just as employers can't hire everybody they interview, we can't admit every person who wants to come here and choices have to be made based on our current needs.
 

padrehorn11

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Maybe in the long run unskilled immigrants with large families will be a net benefit but the others I listed before will benefit us right away and to a larger degree. Just as employers can't hire everybody they interview, we can't admit every person who wants to come here and choices have to be made based on our current needs.
Ummm, I didn't mean to be making the argument that the Democrat "open-borders" policy was right. I do think we should fix immigration law to all ow those now working to remain and strengthen border enforcement. Where that seems to break down is the difference between people like me who both want to expand legal immigration and allow a path to citizenship and allowing illegals here and working to continue and earn a path to citizenship--some call that "amnesty", and people who hear "amnesty" and get their panties in a wad. It's just a word.
 

UTGrad91

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Ummm, I didn't mean to be making the argument that the Democrat "open-borders" policy was right. I do think we should fix immigration law to all ow those now working to remain and strengthen border enforcement. Where that seems to break down is the difference between people like me who both want to expand legal immigration and allow a path to citizenship and allowing illegals here and working to continue and earn a path to citizenship--some call that "amnesty", and people who hear "amnesty" and get their panties in a wad. It's just a word.
Nah, we can't allow people who came here illegally a pathway to citizenship ahead of people who applied legally to come here and have waited patiently for many years. It's patently unfair.
 
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TEXBTP

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Ummm, I didn't mean to be making the argument that the Democrat "open-borders" policy was right. I do think we should fix immigration law to all ow those now working to remain and strengthen border enforcement. Where that seems to break down is the difference between people like me who both want to expand legal immigration and allow a path to citizenship and allowing illegals here and working to continue and earn a path to citizenship--some call that "amnesty", and people who hear "amnesty" and get their panties in a wad. It's just a word.
They are going to take away your red hat if you keep talking like that.
 

eodhorn

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Not remotely.

The colonists’ beef wasn’t taxation, it was taxation without representation.

We have representation. We have the right to decide how much taxation we want and where it goes. Those were the rights the colonials fought for.
Umm who in the **** thinks that taxing citizens to pay for non citizens is representation? Who is being represented in this scenario? *HINT* Not the taxpayer.

 
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JG

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Umm who in the **** thinks that taxing citizens to pay for non citizens is representation? Who is being represented in this scenario? *HINT* Not the taxpayer.

You have the right to have a say in how your are governed. That doesn’t mean you get everything you want.

If 51 senators, 218 representatives, and one president agree to pay for that, then it certainly isn’t imperial or taxation without representation. You have a voice. The colonials did not.
 

TEXBTP

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Most of medicaid is paid by the federal government so taxpayers in other states end up paying for this nonsense too.
This faux outrage is nonsense. No one here has read any policy paper on what the CA law does or why it was put in place. You only see it as a give away as mentioned in some right wing propaganda article.