2020 Democratic Primaries

scout3dave

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Oct 29, 2008
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Yep, you won't save money if you have a very good income after retirement and get a good Supplemental plan. I'm happy to have the income and pay the extra though. It's hard to say you're retired when you've always been self-employed and you simply change the focus of your work. I never had anyone else to pay my policy, so I paid for all my crowns and glasses myself so that didn't matter, and had basically a catastrophic major med. Before Obamacare, I had to have a special policy through a large group insurance with my Professional organization to pay for pre-existing. And the best I could do still had some copay, along with being more expensive. But I was happy just to get it and I'm even happier to get Medicare. I thank God everyday for many things, and American healthcare and Medicare are part of the crowd. Which is another reason I'm a generous giver and now I've got another charity on my list.

And though Medicare used to be a bad plan I've heard, it's now (with the Supplemental) the best I've ever had (though again, I chose to be a 'lone wolf' and didn't get a W-2 after 1979--part of that problem I have with Authority). Before, I still ended up with some significant out-of-pockets. Now I pay virtually nothing OOP for actual care, though the test will be this last procedure which I can't even guess what it cost.


PS I don't know about your Part D drug plan, but mine is very reasonable. It's AARP-Humana. My supplemental is AARP-United Healthcare. AARP's politics suck, IMO, but for a guy like me it's good Insurance. So I just send back their 'push' questionnaires with pithy disagreement replies and "F your Democrats who are 'Fighting for me' ".
The part D is like $60/ month. With a pretty high deductible. My Rx currently cost about 0.47 a month.
 

padrehorn11

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The part D is like $60/ month. With a pretty high deductible. My Rx currently cost about 0.47 a month.
Huh, the AARP Humana premium for me (which includes a kicker for high income) is $27.80/month. I pay a copay of $7 a month on one of my five prescriptions which I think is Tier two and nada on the rest. The deductible isn't high and I meet it pretty quickly. And so far I've never hit the Donut Hole...I don't think. If I did it wasn't until the very end of the year.

I did a lot of research before I signed up for my Supplemental and PArt D but it confused me, so I got free consultation from my Professional organization the American Association of Petroleum Geologists.
 

JG

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It didn’t list every economy. It lists most of what we’re previously considered successful socialized healthcare systems that are now showing cracks and are threatened with collapse. France, Germany, UK etc. It also talks about how those countries are now looking to free market, privatized health care to reduce cost.

Basically socializing health care eventually begins to become an unsustainable burden on the economy, as well as lags in actual quality of care. The way these countries are trying to address these shortcomings is private healthcare providers.
Here is the fallacy of that argument.

We spend way more than they do on health care.
 

JG

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And thanks to that, I probably get to live significantly longer. Pretty good deal for me.
You may, but in general we do NOT live as long.

We aren’t getting the bang for the buck we should be.
 

padrehorn11

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JG, almost all the medical and drug innovation is paid for by Americans. Also, we have a very diverse Demographic which raises the mortality rate compared to the more homogeneous populations you want to compare us to. Compare U.S lifespans to most of the world not just Europe.

Sometime it's like your brain is wired directly into "DemocratTalkingPoints.org". :rolleyes:
 

JG

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JG, almost all the medical and drug innovation is paid for by Americans. Also, we have a very diverse Demographic which raises the mortality rate compared to the more homogeneous populations you want to compare us to. Compare U.S lifespans to most of the world not just Europe.

Sometime it's like your brain is wired directly into "DemocratTalkingPoints.org". :rolleyes:
Except that sounds suspiciously like Republican talking points.

I compare US life spans to other advanced industrialized nations. It’s not great. And other countries have poor people and smokers and drug users too.
 

padrehorn11

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Except that sounds suspiciously like Republican talking points.

I compare US life spans to other advanced industrialized nations. It’s not great. And other countries have poor people and smokers and drug users too.
I never repeat Republican talking points because I don't have a clue what they are. Where would I find them? I'm not even a Republican, I'm a Christian, American, Free-Market Capitalist if you want to pigeonhole me. I state facts and my opinions formed in relation to those facts as I see them. But sometimes Republicans are simply correct. And less commonly, but sometimes, Democrats are too. And if I believe it I'll say it. Your response to my comment where I stated two simple facts and corresponding personal conclusions was insulting, and if you stop and think for a second you'll admit that to yourself. Maybe you believe your those points, which like it or not, are Democratic talking points. I'll bet you 100 bucks I can prove that with a little internet research.

Refute my two points if you can, without changing the subject or bringing up yet another strawman.

The U.S. is not demographically more diverse than any nation on earth? Really? This doesn't effect overall lifespans? Prove it.

Most medical research and drug research is paid for by Americans because we can be charged for them. They aren't free, but other countries cap what they'll pay. We could do the same..but if no one pays the bills for innovation, it doesn't happen. That's pretty basic economics and you know it. What would be your solution to the obvious problem that someone has to pay for increased quality and innovation? Why did you just say essentially just say "America bad", as if that meant anything ?

Jimminy Christmas, JG, I wasn't trying to insult you.I wondered if you had an intelligent factual response behind your comments using other facts that showed my comments were wrong. But you come back with a "same back at you" childish response that I find insulting. Show me the courtesy I'm showing you.

Look. Are my views on immigration (for instance) Republican talking points? NO, and you KNOW that. They are based on selected facts and my interpretation of them, plus my moral and philosophical beliefs. Though most of this forum is in at least some disagreement with them. I'm ok with that. I want intelligent debate and, admittedly some yuks. Not predictable partisan crap.

I admit that your comment pissed me off. Because I. DON'T. DO. TALKING. POINTS. :mad:
 
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padrehorn11

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Except that sounds suspiciously like Republican talking points.

I compare US life spans to other advanced industrialized nations. It’s not great. And other countries have poor people and smokers and drug users too.
"other countries have poor people and smokers and drug users too."
Yes, and those people are more likely to die younger than others. So let's do some meaningful relational demographic comparisons and see if that statement actually means anything. Frankly, I think you're usually too intellectually lazy, or to be fair, too tired, to do anything like work here at thinking. So you just ignore the challenge and change the subject. Or ignore it. Or say the same thing without adding anything substantive. Or...well you've got lots of tricks but they are transparent and everyone see them for what they are, so they take the lazy way out and simply insult you. Damn bro, you're a smart guy when you work at it. Stubborn, but so am I...you've met your match there. Now why not either put in a little work on your typical responses or else just try erasing your first response and go pull your pud or something to amuse you that we don't have to see.
 
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bilbo t baggins

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Except that sounds suspiciously like Republican talking points.

I compare US life spans to other advanced industrialized nations. It’s not great. And other countries have poor people and smokers and drug users too.
I haven't done the math myself but I've read that if you remove traffic fatalities, the US looks much more respectable on that list
 
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sacatomato horn

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Here is the fallacy of that argument.

We spend way more than they do on health care.
None of the Nordic countries have anything remotely resembling Sander's Medicare For All, free healthcare for everyone. They all rely on expansive co pays and deductibles, most use private health alternatives along with mandates, and are funded not by some fanciful group of altruistic billionaires, but by a much higher level of Middle Class taxation, a level that the Democrate candidates here don't have the courage to mention when they signal the virtures of Euro health care. If any of them had the balls of a bull canary, they would tell the truth about what the cost would be to average U.S. households to adopt those foreign models. BTW, I would support such a system, but it needs to be sold to the electorate with an accurate sticker price.

I posted this article before. It is worth reading and understanding what the dems are selling. It aint Sweden, its Venezuela.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/democrats-use-nordic-nations-as-models-of-socialism-they-actually-involve-a-lot-of-capitalism/2019/06/24/b6d9bbdc-945c-11e9-b58a-a6a9afaa0e3e_story.html?utm_term=.7f7e280b796e
 

JG

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"other countries have poor people and smokers and drug users too."
Yes, and those people are more likely to die younger than others. So let's do some meaningful relational demographic comparisons and see if that statement actually means anything. Frankly, I think you're usually too intellectually lazy, or to be fair, too tired, to do anything like work here at thinking. So you just ignore the challenge and change the subject. Or ignore it. Or say the same thing without adding anything substantive. Or...well you've got lots of tricks but they are transparent and everyone see them for what they are, so they take the lazy way out and simply insult you. Damn bro, you're a smart guy when you work at it. Stubborn, but so am I...you've met your match there. Now why not either put in a little work on your typical responses or else just try erasing your first response and go pull your pud or something to amuse you that we don't have to see.
I’m not ducking you padre. I just don’t have time or energy to dig a bunch of stuff up. Lot of stuff going on.

Besides, I could pull a whole lot of stats to back up my points and most people here wouldn’t believe them anyway.
 

Duke Silver

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Middle Class taxation, a level that the Democrate candidates here don't have the courage to mention when they signal the virtures of Euro health care.
To be fair, Sanders did say in the debate that it was going to cause everyone's taxes to go up.
 

Duke Silver

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We just spent 2 wonderful weeks in Norway and I can attest that stuff is really expensive especially alcohol. I will also attest that the demographics are much different than the US.
My sister and good friend went there recently. Both said it's insanely expensive and the people are the best looking they've ever seen, especially the women.
 

calvin farquhar

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My sister and good friend went there recently. Both said it's insanely expensive and the people are the best looking they've ever seen, especially the women.
I take it you missed their matches during the Womens World Cup. Worth tolerating poorly played soccer.
 

scout3dave

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Huh, the AARP Humana premium for me (which includes a kicker for high income) is $27.80/month. I pay a copay of $7 a month on one of my five prescriptions which I think is Tier two and nada on the rest. The deductible isn't high and I meet it pretty quickly. And so far I've never hit the Donut Hole...I don't think. If I did it wasn't until the very end of the year.

I did a lot of research before I signed up for my Supplemental and PArt D but it confused me, so I got free consultation from my Professional organization the American Association of Petroleum Geologists.
Monthly Drug Plan Premium [?] $10.40

Monthly Health Plan Premium [?] N/A

Annual Drug Deductible [?] $415.00

This was the base quote provided, if you then add the Income adjustment it is much higher. Unless I am reading this wrong these are the adders. My wife and I make about the same amount but when combined it really kicks you into a high monthly adder.

File individual tax returnFile joint tax returnFile married & separate tax returnYou pay each month (in 2019)
If your filing status and yearly income in 2017 was
$85,000 or less$170,000 or less$85,000 or lessyour plan premium
above $85,000 up to $107,000above $170,000 up to $214,000not applicable$12.40 + your plan premium
above $107,000 up to $133,500above $214,000 up to $267,000not applicable$31.90 + your plan premium
above $133,500 up to $160,000above $267,000 up to $320,000not applicable$51.40 + your plan premium
above $160,000 and less than $500,000above $320,000 and less than $750,000above $85,000 and less than $415,000$70.90 + your plan premium
 

scout3dave

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My sister and good friend went there recently. Both said it's insanely expensive and the people are the best looking they've ever seen, especially the women.
No doubt they are attractive and we found everyone we dealt with to be extremely nice.

Most of the people we interacted with at hotels or bars or guides (we did a couple of kayak trips) were from other countries but they were from Finland or Estonia, New Zealand and places like that but there must be an attractiveness filter because they were beautiful as well. The US should include that in any new immigration policy! :)
 

padrehorn11

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I’m not ducking you padre. I just don’t have time or energy to dig a bunch of stuff up. Lot of stuff going on.

Besides, I could pull a whole lot of stats to back up my points and most people here wouldn’t believe them anyway.
That's fair enough. Why post the stuff you don't want to back up then? Why irritate people if you don't have time to follow through. Honestly JG, look for the good parts of yourself and show them to us nstaed of everyone and then acting hurt when they pile on you. You've done this so long some people have put yu in a box that as far as they're concerned you can't get out of. Some folks just get a kick out of insulting people and you make yourself a big fat target. It's not necessary.

Just join us with a different but reasonable view you can support easily and don't post **** just because you can.

Or maybe you enjoy what ensues from you forum behavior. Believe me, it will get old to you someday.

Think about this. If a tree falls on you tomorrow I can think of a few people here who might say, "well we've lost a political ally, but he wasn't very effective, he turned off people who might otherwise at least listen to different nuanced views occasionally so no big loss." And a lot of people would say "good riddance". I can think of two folks, myself included who would think, "he was a good guy even if his politics differed form mine and sometimes he pissed me off. But he wasted his time acting like an asshole most of the time on the forum". Yeah, it's just a forum and it's not like we're real people you sit down with, but still, it's a good time to practice on you kinder side and start disagreeing civilly and only when you have time to actually add something. Some people will ignore that, but so what?. Most people are happier when they're being kind...SAhornfan excluded of course.

The only reason I'm bothering you with this is that I like you. I've acted like an ass many times and still do, but I find being pleasant and listening to others and valuing their input (even when I disagree) makes ME feel better. And one thing I like about forums is I can't cut people off mid-sentence when I think I see where they're headed. Its one of my worse traits. You may do it too. Lots of intelligent people do because they see things and make conclusions quickly...often too quickly and many times wrong or at least premature. I think sometimes I'm just showing off how smart I am. Bad Padre...bad. That reminds me to work harder at not cutting people off. It really bothers most people.

I felt really dumb recently when several times I cut off the very, very good cancer specialist--the head of the Dallas Methodist Liver Tumor Institute who talking to me about the procedure they recommended. After the second time, he stopped, looked at me and smiled and calmly said "I'll get to that answer and cover everything better that if you'll stop cutting me off. Then I'll gladly answer any questions you might have. " Gosh I hate being a jerk...nonetheless, sometimes I am.

I've tried and tried to break that tendency...maybe I should tr a trick I just read: put a mint in my mouth and not talk until it dissolves.

Anyway, time to go see the vampires, get some blood samples taken, and see how Mr. Liver is doing after being zapped.
 

padrehorn11

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Monthly Drug Plan Premium [?] $10.40

Monthly Health Plan Premium [?] N/A

Annual Drug Deductible [?] $415.00

This was the base quote provided, if you then add the Income adjustment it is much higher. Unless I am reading this wrong these are the adders. My wife and I make about the same amount but when combined it really kicks you into a high monthly adder.

File individual tax returnFile joint tax returnFile married & separate tax returnYou pay each month (in 2019)
If your filing status and yearly income in 2017 was
$85,000 or less$170,000 or less$85,000 or lessyour plan premium
above $85,000 up to $107,000above $170,000 up to $214,000not applicable$12.40 + your plan premium
above $107,000 up to $133,500above $214,000 up to $267,000not applicable$31.90 + your plan premium
above $133,500 up to $160,000above $267,000 up to $320,000not applicable$51.40 + your plan premium
above $160,000 and less than $500,000above $320,000 and less than $750,000above $85,000 and less than $415,000$70.90 + your plan premium
Monthly Drug Plan Premium [?] $10.40

Monthly Health Plan Premium [?] N/A

Annual Drug Deductible [?] $415.00

This was the base quote provided, if you then add the Income adjustment it is much higher. Unless I am reading this wrong these are the adders. My wife and I make about the same amount but when combined it really kicks you into a high monthly adder.

File individual tax returnFile joint tax returnFile married & separate tax returnYou pay each month (in 2019)
If your filing status and yearly income in 2017 was
$85,000 or less$170,000 or less$85,000 or lessyour plan premium
above $85,000 up to $107,000above $170,000 up to $214,000not applicable$12.40 + your plan premium
above $107,000 up to $133,500above $214,000 up to $267,000not applicable$31.90 + your plan premium
above $133,500 up to $160,000above $267,000 up to $320,000not applicable$51.40 + your plan premium
above $160,000 and less than $500,000above $320,000 and less than $750,000above $85,000 and less than $415,000$70.90 + your plan premium
I'll try to look at mine later, but I tend to but this stuff off because I can make (or lose) the difference with one good (or bad) investment decision and I enjoy spending time on that a lot more. But I know one big factor for me is they are still using my 2016 return, I think. They can't be using 2018 because I haven't filed it, an my income varies wildly. And I had some carry-forward write-offs too in 2016. Me and my buddy Jeff. I know SS must be using 2017, and if Humana is, they're income penalty is far less than your yours. And m deductible is no more than about half of yours, I'm pretty sure. Give me some time, and remind me if I forget, because I ought to stay on top of it. I As I tell my daughter, I didn't get rich by ignoring the 'little things'. Me and Warren Buffet in that respect. I save paper clips too. :)
 

scout3dave

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Oct 29, 2008
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I'll try to look at mine later, but I tend to but this stuff off because I can make (or lose) the difference with one good (or bad) investment decision and I enjoy spending time on that a lot more. But I know one big factor for me is they are still using my 2016 return, I think. They can't be using 2018 because I haven't filed it, an my income varies wildly. And I had some carry-forward write-offs too in 2016. Me and my buddy Jeff. I know SS must be using 2017, and if Humana is, they're income penalty is far less than your yours. And m deductible is no more than about half of yours, I'm pretty sure. Give me some time, and remind me if I forget, because I ought to stay on top of it. I As I tell my daughter, I didn't get rich by ignoring the 'little things'. Me and Warren Buffet in that respect. I save paper clips too. :)
Right now they are basing off of 2017 tax return. I will have a problem for another 2 years then can start manipulating Income to get below key thresholds.
 

JG

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That's fair enough. Why post the stuff you don't want to back up then? Why irritate people if you don't have time to follow through. Honestly JG, look for the good parts of yourself and show them to us nstaed of everyone and then acting hurt when they pile on you. You've done this so long some people have put yu in a box that as far as they're concerned you can't get out of. Some folks just get a kick out of insulting people and you make yourself a big fat target. It's not necessary.

Just join us with a different but reasonable view you can support easily and don't post **** just because you can.

Or maybe you enjoy what ensues from you forum behavior. Believe me, it will get old to you someday.

Think about this. If a tree falls on you tomorrow I can think of a few people here who might say, "well we've lost a political ally, but he wasn't very effective, he turned off people who might otherwise at least listen to different nuanced views occasionally so no big loss." And a lot of people would say "good riddance". I can think of two folks, myself included who would think, "he was a good guy even if his politics differed form mine and sometimes he pissed me off. But he wasted his time acting like an asshole most of the time on the forum". Yeah, it's just a forum and it's not like we're real people you sit down with, but still, it's a good time to practice on you kinder side and start disagreeing civilly and only when you have time to actually add something. Some people will ignore that, but so what?. Most people are happier when they're being kind...SAhornfan excluded of course.

The only reason I'm bothering you with this is that I like you. I've acted like an ass many times and still do, but I find being pleasant and listening to others and valuing their input (even when I disagree) makes ME feel better. And one thing I like about forums is I can't cut people off mid-sentence when I think I see where they're headed. Its one of my worse traits. You may do it too. Lots of intelligent people do because they see things and make conclusions quickly...often too quickly and many times wrong or at least premature. I think sometimes I'm just showing off how smart I am. Bad Padre...bad. That reminds me to work harder at not cutting people off. It really bothers most people.

I felt really dumb recently when several times I cut off the very, very good cancer specialist--the head of the Dallas Methodist Liver Tumor Institute who talking to me about the procedure they recommended. After the second time, he stopped, looked at me and smiled and calmly said "I'll get to that answer and cover everything better that if you'll stop cutting me off. Then I'll gladly answer any questions you might have. " Gosh I hate being a jerk...nonetheless, sometimes I am.

I've tried and tried to break that tendency...maybe I should tr a trick I just read: put a mint in my mouth and not talk until it dissolves.

Anyway, time to go see the vampires, get some blood samples taken, and see how Mr. Liver is doing after being zapped.
Padre, with respect, telling someone "I think you are wrong" is NOT being an asshole. Or a prick, as was asserted on the other board. People do that **** to me every damn day, 10 times a day, and I live with it just fine.

When I have time to back it up, I do. 95% of the time, whatever sources I pull are totally ignored. We throw competing stats at each other and mine just get ignored or called fake news. Part of is that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, to coin a phrase, and many of us are good at cherry picking the ones we want. I do it too, I'm not immune at all.

I'm cranky today because my son had a difficult surgery yesterday (he's fine, just very uncomfortable, and when you start with a person who is difficult to get along with anyway, and then make him uncomfortable from surgery...well, that ain't no fun). And then I had what was supposed to be a mole removed this morning, except they wound up cutting out a piece of skin the size of my girlfriend's pinkie (or @SAhornfan's johnson). So...I am feeling really pissy today.

Good luck with the follow-up on the treatment. Hope it's good to go.
 
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SAhornfan

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Padre, with respect, telling someone "I think you are wrong" is NOT being an asshole. Or a prick, as was asserted on the other board. People do that **** to me every damn day, 10 times a day, and I live with it just fine.

When I have time to back it up, I do. 95% of the time, whatever sources I pull are totally ignored. We throw competing stats at each other and mine just get ignored or called fake news. Part of is that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, to coin a phrase, and many of us are good at cherry picking the ones we want. I do it too, I'm not immune at all.

I'm cranky today because my son had a difficult surgery yesterday (he's fine, just very uncomfortable, and when you start with a person who is difficult to get along with anyway, and then make him uncomfortable from surgery...well, that ain't no fun). And then I had what was supposed to be a mole removed this morning, except they wound up cutting out a piece of skin the size of my girlfriend's pinkie (or @SAhornfan's johnson). So...I am feeling really pissy today.

Good luck with the follow-up on the treatment. Hope it's good to go.
Your girlfriend must have giant hands.
 
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calvin farquhar

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No doubt they are attractive and we found everyone we dealt with to be extremely nice.

Most of the people we interacted with at hotels or bars or guides (we did a couple of kayak trips) were from other countries but they were from Finland or Estonia, New Zealand and places like that but there must be an attractiveness filter because they were beautiful as well. The US should include that in any new immigration policy! :)
Definitely contributes to the overall well being of the U.S.

Auto in.
 

TexasPalladin

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Padre, with respect, telling someone "I think you are wrong" is NOT being an asshole. Or a prick, as was asserted on the other board. People do that **** to me every damn day, 10 times a day, and I live with it just fine.

When I have time to back it up, I do. 95% of the time, whatever sources I pull are totally ignored. We throw competing stats at each other and mine just get ignored or called fake news. Part of is that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, to coin a phrase, and many of us are good at cherry picking the ones we want. I do it too, I'm not immune at all.

I'm cranky today because my son had a difficult surgery yesterday (he's fine, just very uncomfortable, and when you start with a person who is difficult to get along with anyway, and then make him uncomfortable from surgery...well, that ain't no fun). And then I had what was supposed to be a mole removed this morning, except they wound up cutting out a piece of skin the size of my girlfriend's pinkie (or @SAhornfan's johnson). So...I am feeling really pissy today.

Good luck with the follow-up on the treatment. Hope it's good to go.
You regularly vex me John.
That being said....
I truly hope that your Son is recovering well and that he will make a full recovery.
And I'm sincerely wishing you the best in your mole removal prognosis.
You may regularly irritate, but I still give a damn about you and like you on a personal basis and believe you are a genuinely good man at heart.
(Even if you are incapable of cogent, intelligent and objective debate)
Get well my friend.


Semper Fi
 

houstonhorn

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Here is the fallacy of that argument.

We spend way more than they do on health care.
Yes we have more population than they do. Over 100M more than those 3 countries combined. As of 2012, which estimated there were 45.6M people without insurance, there are 68M more insured people in America than all of those 3 countries combined.
 
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