Oberlin College Libel Ruling

UTGrad91

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I applaud this ruling. An Oberlin College student stole from a local bakery and it turned into a big racial incident since the student was black and the college made false accusations of racism against the bakery. Now they have to pay them $11 million.

I hope there are similar verdicts in favor of the Covington Catholic student. False accusations of racism, no matter how much the media and others want them to be true, need to be punished so that they cease:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/oberlin-college-to-pay-bakery-over-11-m-after-accusing-it-of-racial-profiling
 

calvin farquhar

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11$ m to a bakery before punitive damages? They must have royally screwed up.
If I remember correctly, the kids that got busted, in their statement to the police, said it had nothing to do with racism. He really was trying to steal something and got caught. The college got involved in something they never should have, drove the racism narrative, and set up the rally at the bakery. They tried to walk it back once they got sued, but their actions were pretty clear. I'm glad to see it happened, and as stated above, maybe the catholic school kids get a similar result.
 

bHero

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If I remember correctly, the kids that got busted, in their statement to the police, said it had nothing to do with racism. He really was trying to steal something and got caught. The college got involved in something they never should have, drove the racism narrative, and set up the rally at the bakery. They tried to walk it back once they got sued, but their actions were pretty clear. I'm glad to see it happened, and as stated above, maybe the catholic school kids get a similar result.
They should have settled while people were still emotional. Now that people have calmed down, they are likely to get pantsed for using national tensions as a bully pulpit. Given it was clear from the outset that this wasn't a racially-motivated event, what was the school's actual end-game or purpose for injecting themselves into the situation?
 

calvin farquhar

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They should have settled while people were still emotional. Now that people have calmed down, they are likely to get pantsed for using national tensions as a bully pulpit. Given it was clear from the outset that this wasn't a racially-motivated event, what was the school's actual end-game or purpose for injecting themselves into the situation?
Colleges are becoming overrun with SJW assholes and the person involved from the college sounds like one of them. She was literally trying to run interference for the kids. The whole thing was stupid on the colleges part. I'm glad the got snot knocked. It's getting way out of control
 

bHero

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Colleges are becoming overrun with SJW assholes and the person involved from the college sounds like one of them. She was literally trying to run interference for the kids. The whole thing was stupid on the colleges part. I'm glad the got snot knocked. It's getting way out of control
I'm about to start a thread and remind people about this. It'll die quickly, but I think people like to eye-roll this too.
 

calvin farquhar

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There's more. From an article today. One attorney/law professor says Oberlin's response to the judgement will probably cost them more during the punitive phase.

Link is down below but article is included. Bold are mine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, Oberlin College was ordered to pay the owners of a small bakery near the college a combined $11.2 million in compensatory damages for defamation. Their response to the decision may cost them much, much more.

The Gibson family had owned and operated Gibson’s Bakery since 1885, The Daily Wire previously reported. On November 9, 2016, according to a lawsuit filed by the baker, three Oberlin students – Jonathan Aladin, Ccelia Whettstone, and Endia Lawrence – entered the store. Aladin attempted to purchase a bottle of wine with a fake ID. The owner, Allyn Gibson, refused. Gibson then noticed Aladin had two other bottles of win under his shirt and told the student he was calling the police. The Chronicle-Telegram reported that Aladin attempted to leave, so Gibson snapped a picture of him on his phone. Aladin then knocked the phone from Gibson’s hand and ran from the store, dropping the wine bottles. Gibson chased after Aladin to stop him, and the other two students began hitting the store owner as police arrived.

This encounter was deemed racist by the Oberlin community, even though Aladin said in a statement during his sentencing hearing that racism wasn’t a factor

"On November 9, 2016, I entered Gibson’s Market in Oberlin, Ohio, and attempted to purchase alcohol with a fake ID,” Aladin said in a written statement. “When the clerk recognized the fake ID, I struggled with the clerk to recover the fake ID. The clerk was within his legal rights to detain me, and I regret presenting a fake ID in an attempt to obtain alcohol. Thus unfortunate incident was triggered by my attempt to purchase alcohol. I believe the employees of Gibsons’ actions were not racially motivated. They were merely trying to prevent an underage sale."

Despite what happened, Gibson attempted to get the charges against Aladin dropped from a felony to a second-degree misdemeanor.

After the incident, Oberlin staff, including interim vice president and dean of students Meredith Raimondo, began attacking the bakery as racist and said the college would no longer purchase goods from the store. Protesters demonstrated in front of the bakery. Raimondo joined them. Flyers were passed out that said the bakery “is a RACIST establishment with a LONG ACCOUNT of RACIAL PROFILING and DISCRIMINATION.”

The family, in their lawsuit, claimed Raimondo used a bullhorn to shout defamatory statements during the protests and that the college suspended classes so students could protest and provided those protesters with food and drinks.

After jurors awarded the Gibson’s $11.2 million in compensatory damages, Donica Thomas Varner, Oberlin’s vice president, general counsel and secretary for the college sent a community wide email criticizing the decision:

"We are disappointed with the verdict and regret that the jury did not agree with the clear evidence our team presented. Neither Oberlin College nor Dean Meredith Raimondo defamed a local business or its owners, and they never endorsed statements made by others. Rather, the College and Dr. Raimondo worked to ensure that students’ freedom of speech was protected and that the student demonstrations were safe and lawful, and they attempted to help the plaintiffs repair any harm caused by the student protests.

As we have stated, colleges cannot be held liable for the independent actions of their students. Institutions of higher education are obligated to protect freedom of speech on their campuses and respect their students’ decision to peacefully exercise their First Amendment rights. Oberlin College acted in accordance with these obligations."

Over at Legal Insurrection, former attorney and current Cornell Law School professor William A. Jacobson wrote that Oberlin’s attack on the jurors could end up hurting them, as punitive damages have not been awarded:

"Procedurally, the email is baffling because the trial is not over. The jury will hear more evidence and render a verdict on punitive damages that could add another $22 million to the $11 million compensatory. The objective of any communications at this sensitive stage must be to first do no harm. That’s how Scott Wargo, Oberlin’s spokesman, handled it when contacted by me and other media after the verdict, indicating the college had no comment on the jury verdict. Wargo’s statement was the professional response one would expect in this circumstance, so why are others at the college not heeding that basic corporate communications strategy?"

Jacobson went on to write how “infuriating” the email sent to the Oberlin community was to those who followed the case. As he wrote, Oberlin and Raimondo were not, as the email claimed, “held liable for the independent actions of their students” – they were held accountable for their own actions and not those of Aladin or any student protesters.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/48220/oberlin-college-may-end-paying-bakery-much-more-11-ashe-schow
 

bHero

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There's more. From an article today. One attorney/law professor says Oberlin's response to the judgement will probably cost them more during the punitive phase.

Link is down below but article is included. Bold are mine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, Oberlin College was ordered to pay the owners of a small bakery near the college a combined $11.2 million in compensatory damages for defamation. Their response to the decision may cost them much, much more.

The Gibson family had owned and operated Gibson’s Bakery since 1885, The Daily Wire previously reported. On November 9, 2016, according to a lawsuit filed by the baker, three Oberlin students – Jonathan Aladin, Ccelia Whettstone, and Endia Lawrence – entered the store. Aladin attempted to purchase a bottle of wine with a fake ID. The owner, Allyn Gibson, refused. Gibson then noticed Aladin had two other bottles of win under his shirt and told the student he was calling the police. The Chronicle-Telegram reported that Aladin attempted to leave, so Gibson snapped a picture of him on his phone. Aladin then knocked the phone from Gibson’s hand and ran from the store, dropping the wine bottles. Gibson chased after Aladin to stop him, and the other two students began hitting the store owner as police arrived.

This encounter was deemed racist by the Oberlin community, even though Aladin said in a statement during his sentencing hearing that racism wasn’t a factor

"On November 9, 2016, I entered Gibson’s Market in Oberlin, Ohio, and attempted to purchase alcohol with a fake ID,” Aladin said in a written statement. “When the clerk recognized the fake ID, I struggled with the clerk to recover the fake ID. The clerk was within his legal rights to detain me, and I regret presenting a fake ID in an attempt to obtain alcohol. Thus unfortunate incident was triggered by my attempt to purchase alcohol. I believe the employees of Gibsons’ actions were not racially motivated. They were merely trying to prevent an underage sale."

Despite what happened, Gibson attempted to get the charges against Aladin dropped from a felony to a second-degree misdemeanor.

After the incident, Oberlin staff, including interim vice president and dean of students Meredith Raimondo, began attacking the bakery as racist and said the college would no longer purchase goods from the store. Protesters demonstrated in front of the bakery. Raimondo joined them. Flyers were passed out that said the bakery “is a RACIST establishment with a LONG ACCOUNT of RACIAL PROFILING and DISCRIMINATION.”

The family, in their lawsuit, claimed Raimondo used a bullhorn to shout defamatory statements during the protests and that the college suspended classes so students could protest and provided those protesters with food and drinks.

After jurors awarded the Gibson’s $11.2 million in compensatory damages, Donica Thomas Varner, Oberlin’s vice president, general counsel and secretary for the college sent a community wide email criticizing the decision:

"We are disappointed with the verdict and regret that the jury did not agree with the clear evidence our team presented. Neither Oberlin College nor Dean Meredith Raimondo defamed a local business or its owners, and they never endorsed statements made by others. Rather, the College and Dr. Raimondo worked to ensure that students’ freedom of speech was protected and that the student demonstrations were safe and lawful, and they attempted to help the plaintiffs repair any harm caused by the student protests.

As we have stated, colleges cannot be held liable for the independent actions of their students. Institutions of higher education are obligated to protect freedom of speech on their campuses and respect their students’ decision to peacefully exercise their First Amendment rights. Oberlin College acted in accordance with these obligations."

Over at Legal Insurrection, former attorney and current Cornell Law School professor William A. Jacobson wrote that Oberlin’s attack on the jurors could end up hurting them, as punitive damages have not been awarded:

"Procedurally, the email is baffling because the trial is not over. The jury will hear more evidence and render a verdict on punitive damages that could add another $22 million to the $11 million compensatory. The objective of any communications at this sensitive stage must be to first do no harm. That’s how Scott Wargo, Oberlin’s spokesman, handled it when contacted by me and other media after the verdict, indicating the college had no comment on the jury verdict. Wargo’s statement was the professional response one would expect in this circumstance, so why are others at the college not heeding that basic corporate communications strategy?"

Jacobson went on to write how “infuriating” the email sent to the Oberlin community was to those who followed the case. As he wrote, Oberlin and Raimondo were not, as the email claimed, “held liable for the independent actions of their students” – they were held accountable for their own actions and not those of Aladin or any student protesters.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/48220/oberlin-college-may-end-paying-bakery-much-more-11-ashe-schow
Wow. Lesson not learned. This will end well.
 

UTGrad91

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Colleges are becoming overrun with SJW assholes and the person involved from the college sounds like one of them. She was literally trying to run interference for the kids. The whole thing was stupid on the colleges part. I'm glad the got snot knocked. It's getting way out of control
The paranoia with SJWs and PC fanatics is reminiscent of the McCarthy era, except this time it's coming from the left, not the right. They must walk around believing there's a racist hiding behind every tree.
 
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bHero

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There's more. From an article today. One attorney/law professor says Oberlin's response to the judgement will probably cost them more during the punitive phase.

Link is down below but article is included. Bold are mine.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last week, Oberlin College was ordered to pay the owners of a small bakery near the college a combined $11.2 million in compensatory damages for defamation. Their response to the decision may cost them much, much more.

The Gibson family had owned and operated Gibson’s Bakery since 1885, The Daily Wire previously reported. On November 9, 2016, according to a lawsuit filed by the baker, three Oberlin students – Jonathan Aladin, Ccelia Whettstone, and Endia Lawrence – entered the store. Aladin attempted to purchase a bottle of wine with a fake ID. The owner, Allyn Gibson, refused. Gibson then noticed Aladin had two other bottles of win under his shirt and told the student he was calling the police. The Chronicle-Telegram reported that Aladin attempted to leave, so Gibson snapped a picture of him on his phone. Aladin then knocked the phone from Gibson’s hand and ran from the store, dropping the wine bottles. Gibson chased after Aladin to stop him, and the other two students began hitting the store owner as police arrived.

This encounter was deemed racist by the Oberlin community, even though Aladin said in a statement during his sentencing hearing that racism wasn’t a factor

"On November 9, 2016, I entered Gibson’s Market in Oberlin, Ohio, and attempted to purchase alcohol with a fake ID,” Aladin said in a written statement. “When the clerk recognized the fake ID, I struggled with the clerk to recover the fake ID. The clerk was within his legal rights to detain me, and I regret presenting a fake ID in an attempt to obtain alcohol. Thus unfortunate incident was triggered by my attempt to purchase alcohol. I believe the employees of Gibsons’ actions were not racially motivated. They were merely trying to prevent an underage sale."

Despite what happened, Gibson attempted to get the charges against Aladin dropped from a felony to a second-degree misdemeanor.

After the incident, Oberlin staff, including interim vice president and dean of students Meredith Raimondo, began attacking the bakery as racist and said the college would no longer purchase goods from the store. Protesters demonstrated in front of the bakery. Raimondo joined them. Flyers were passed out that said the bakery “is a RACIST establishment with a LONG ACCOUNT of RACIAL PROFILING and DISCRIMINATION.”

The family, in their lawsuit, claimed Raimondo used a bullhorn to shout defamatory statements during the protests and that the college suspended classes so students could protest and provided those protesters with food and drinks.

After jurors awarded the Gibson’s $11.2 million in compensatory damages, Donica Thomas Varner, Oberlin’s vice president, general counsel and secretary for the college sent a community wide email criticizing the decision:

"We are disappointed with the verdict and regret that the jury did not agree with the clear evidence our team presented. Neither Oberlin College nor Dean Meredith Raimondo defamed a local business or its owners, and they never endorsed statements made by others. Rather, the College and Dr. Raimondo worked to ensure that students’ freedom of speech was protected and that the student demonstrations were safe and lawful, and they attempted to help the plaintiffs repair any harm caused by the student protests.

As we have stated, colleges cannot be held liable for the independent actions of their students. Institutions of higher education are obligated to protect freedom of speech on their campuses and respect their students’ decision to peacefully exercise their First Amendment rights. Oberlin College acted in accordance with these obligations."

Over at Legal Insurrection, former attorney and current Cornell Law School professor William A. Jacobson wrote that Oberlin’s attack on the jurors could end up hurting them, as punitive damages have not been awarded:

"Procedurally, the email is baffling because the trial is not over. The jury will hear more evidence and render a verdict on punitive damages that could add another $22 million to the $11 million compensatory. The objective of any communications at this sensitive stage must be to first do no harm. That’s how Scott Wargo, Oberlin’s spokesman, handled it when contacted by me and other media after the verdict, indicating the college had no comment on the jury verdict. Wargo’s statement was the professional response one would expect in this circumstance, so why are others at the college not heeding that basic corporate communications strategy?"

Jacobson went on to write how “infuriating” the email sent to the Oberlin community was to those who followed the case. As he wrote, Oberlin and Raimondo were not, as the email claimed, “held liable for the independent actions of their students” – they were held accountable for their own actions and not those of Aladin or any student protesters.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/48220/oberlin-college-may-end-paying-bakery-much-more-11-ashe-schow
Here's more from the law school professors analysis: https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

--++--

As mentioned numerous times, “from the start of this case I have questioned the aggressive and demeaning attacks on the Gibsons as a defense strategy,” and “I’m still shaking my head at the tone-deafness of the defense in belittling this family business.”

...

I saw this phenomenon when I was in private practice representing employees against securities firms, which usually had in-house counsel involved in termination decisions. When the in-house counsel who advised as to termination also showed up overseeing the litigation, I knew there were going to be problems because that person had an interest in defending his or her own termination advice, rather than providing a cold, disinterested litigation assessment.

We would have to know more about Varner’s involvement in overseeing the litigation. But if she was the key point person at the college as to the litigation strategy, she may not be the right person to handle corporate communications.

Someone with such deep experience as Varner should have known better than to send out such a statement in the middle of trial, particularly on the cusp of a punitive damages hearing. I understand the college felt the need to say something, but first do no harm. Simply send out a mass email, since alumni were going to hear about the verdict through the news, indicating that the college cannot comment since the trial is ongoing, and that more information will be provided after the trial is over. Or express a vague regret at the verdict and respect for the jurors.

But for heaven’s sake, don’t make things worse.

Don’t accuse the jurors of disregarding the “clear evidence,” don’t repeat the same failed claim that the college administrators were simply keeping the peace and protecting free speech when numerous witnesses testified otherwise, and don’t claim the college was held liable vicariously when in fact the college’s own conduct was at issue.

The post-verdict email could be Exhibit A at the punitive damages hearing as to why the compensatory damages are not sufficient to send a message to Oberlin College and its administrators. Whether it will be an exhibit we’ll find out on Tuesday.
 

UTGrad91

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Here's more from the law school professors analysis: https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

--++--

As mentioned numerous times, “from the start of this case I have questioned the aggressive and demeaning attacks on the Gibsons as a defense strategy,” and “I’m still shaking my head at the tone-deafness of the defense in belittling this family business.”

...

I saw this phenomenon when I was in private practice representing employees against securities firms, which usually had in-house counsel involved in termination decisions. When the in-house counsel who advised as to termination also showed up overseeing the litigation, I knew there were going to be problems because that person had an interest in defending his or her own termination advice, rather than providing a cold, disinterested litigation assessment.

We would have to know more about Varner’s involvement in overseeing the litigation. But if she was the key point person at the college as to the litigation strategy, she may not be the right person to handle corporate communications.

Someone with such deep experience as Varner should have known better than to send out such a statement in the middle of trial, particularly on the cusp of a punitive damages hearing. I understand the college felt the need to say something, but first do no harm. Simply send out a mass email, since alumni were going to hear about the verdict through the news, indicating that the college cannot comment since the trial is ongoing, and that more information will be provided after the trial is over. Or express a vague regret at the verdict and respect for the jurors.

But for heaven’s sake, don’t make things worse.

Don’t accuse the jurors of disregarding the “clear evidence,” don’t repeat the same failed claim that the college administrators were simply keeping the peace and protecting free speech when numerous witnesses testified otherwise, and don’t claim the college was held liable vicariously when in fact the college’s own conduct was at issue.

The post-verdict email could be Exhibit A at the punitive damages hearing as to why the compensatory damages are not sufficient to send a message to Oberlin College and its administrators. Whether it will be an exhibit we’ll find out on Tuesday.
The arrogance shown by the college in this manner is another reason why these verdicts are necessary. They are incapable of changing their behavior on their own.
 

bHero

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The arrogance shown by the college in this manner is another reason why these verdicts are necessary. They are incapable of changing their behavior on their own.
Apparently Oberlin and a few other Liberal Arts Colleges have all been experiencing similar issues with this stuff (see the Critical Theory thread for overtness) for several years. The Cornell prof mentioned above has been cataloging the legal ramifications for years out of what he seems to describe a morbid curiosity.

No joke, one of the defense's arguments was that the bakery is worth less than one year of attending the university.

And to counter the plaintiff's argument, they also used condescension, saying the defendant's method of valuation is "... rarely used by any accountants who study businesses that have had revenue decline like Gibson’s has had. Saari claimed plaintiffs’ expert had gotten his 30-year time frame by putting “generation” in Google. "

Morons.

But wait, it gets worse. They consistently assume the jury is a bunch of dummies and argue that the building value shouldn't be counted either, since it's separate from the business, despite both being owned by the family. They then proceed to argue that the family could make more working somewhere else just based on their hours alone. The business was over 100 years old and cross 5 generations.



I think your conclusion is spot on. And it also seems clear from Exhibit A (thanks guys!) that $11 million isn't enough, as the university is still blaming the family.
 

calvin farquhar

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Here's more from the law school professors analysis: https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

--++--

As mentioned numerous times, “from the start of this case I have questioned the aggressive and demeaning attacks on the Gibsons as a defense strategy,” and “I’m still shaking my head at the tone-deafness of the defense in belittling this family business.”

...

I saw this phenomenon when I was in private practice representing employees against securities firms, which usually had in-house counsel involved in termination decisions. When the in-house counsel who advised as to termination also showed up overseeing the litigation, I knew there were going to be problems because that person had an interest in defending his or her own termination advice, rather than providing a cold, disinterested litigation assessment.

We would have to know more about Varner’s involvement in overseeing the litigation. But if she was the key point person at the college as to the litigation strategy, she may not be the right person to handle corporate communications.

Someone with such deep experience as Varner should have known better than to send out such a statement in the middle of trial, particularly on the cusp of a punitive damages hearing. I understand the college felt the need to say something, but first do no harm. Simply send out a mass email, since alumni were going to hear about the verdict through the news, indicating that the college cannot comment since the trial is ongoing, and that more information will be provided after the trial is over. Or express a vague regret at the verdict and respect for the jurors.

But for heaven’s sake, don’t make things worse.

Don’t accuse the jurors of disregarding the “clear evidence,” don’t repeat the same failed claim that the college administrators were simply keeping the peace and protecting free speech when numerous witnesses testified otherwise, and don’t claim the college was held liable vicariously when in fact the college’s own conduct was at issue.

The post-verdict email could be Exhibit A at the punitive damages hearing as to why the compensatory damages are not sufficient to send a message to Oberlin College and its administrators. Whether it will be an exhibit we’ll find out on Tuesday.

Leftists in general, and colleges in particular, feel emboldened today to force their beliefs down your throat. This college is, sadly, fairly representative of the arrogance of the left. Hell, you have that dip**** JG on another thread literally telling us there are no natural rights, only those rights given to us by the gubmint. Wrong. Within the past couple of weeks, California, I believe it was, has decided that the 1st amendment doesn't protect against hate speech. I am good with that as long as I get to define what that is, which means, JG is going to jail.

The whole thing is going to blow up badly at some point and I blame our politicians, starting with the worst president that ever held office, Obama. My god he is a turd.
 

bHero

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Leftists in general, and colleges in particular, feel emboldened today to force their beliefs down your throat. This college is, sadly, fairly representative of the arrogance of the left. Hell, you have that dip**** JG on another thread literally telling us there are no natural rights, only those rights given to us by the gubmint. Wrong. Within the past couple of weeks, California, I believe it was, has decided that the 1st amendment doesn't protect against hate speech. I am good with that as long as I get to define what that is, which means, JG is going to jail.

The whole thing is going to blow up badly at some point and I blame our politicians, starting with the worst president that ever held office, Obama. My god he is a turd.
I don't blame Obama, he's just the next one to carry the torch. Obama was "certified" on Sal Alinsky's Rules for Radicals community organizing, and studied under by Mike Kruglik and the IAF (Industrial Areas Foundation - Alinsky's Official School), and was even a teacher of Rules for Radical's. Hillary was also a disciple, and her senior thesis at college was a 92 page paper on Sal Alinsky.

But neither Obama nor Hillary were the first. This stuff has been around since the ideology set foot on our shore. Politicians used to complain about it as political correctness. But you're right in the sense that it wasn't acute until Barak Obama ran for president. It used to be rich vs poor (have's vs have nots), but morphed away from an economic argument into a social one. I see the start of that with the founding of MoveOn.org in 1998. Maybe because that's the first entity I could find that combined the Rules for Radicals and the reach of the internet and social media. Someone might be able to go further back.
 

padrehorn11

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When will they learn?
Maybe my experience with academia has influenced my thoughts here, but it's been my experience that relatively 'highly-educated' people of a certain level of intelligence (to put it simply, they're smart, but not nearly so smart as they think they are) often have a "learning disability" when it comes to learning how to deal with other people and life in general outside the 'safe space' they've found in a small area of focus.

So "When will they ever learn?" Never. Because they're not even capable of learning that there's something here they need to learn.
 

bHero

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Maybe my experience with academia has influenced my thoughts here, but it's been my experience that relatively 'highly-educated' people of a certain level of intelligence (to put it simply, they're smart, but not nearly so smart as they think they are) often have a "learning disability" when it comes to learning how to deal with other people and life in general outside the 'safe space' they've found in a small area of focus.

So "When will they ever learn?" Never. Because they're not even capable of learning that there's something here they need to learn.
I spent a few minutes in academia as well, and I often felt that there are 2 types of academics. The ones who know they are right and you are wrong and feel it's their job to show you the right way, and the ones who listen and engage. The first group loves to pose as the second, but usually out themselves pretty quickly when I start asking my typical contextual "why?" questions and only get multiple versions of the same answer. I think first group is fine for memorizing answers and passing a test they wrote, but it's the second group that actually teaches me. Those cats in the second group seem to be geared towards the students and have a much firmer grasp of what's going on outside the ivory tower, even if it's only because we've had to describe the world outside of it to them. But that first group... there's no getting through.
 
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ole tnhorn

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I spent a few minutes in academia as well, and I often felt that there are 2 types of academics. The ones who know they are right and you are wrong and feel it's their job to show you the right way, and the ones who listen and engage. The first group loves to pose as the second, but usually out themselves pretty quickly when I start asking my typical contextual "why?" questions and only get multiple versions of the same answer. I think first group is fine for memorizing answers and passing a test they wrote, but it's the second group that actually teaches me. Those cats in the second group seem to be geared towards the students and have a much firmer grasp of what's going on outside the ivory tower, even if it's only because we've had to describe the world outside of it to them. But that first group... there's no getting through.
The second group listens to the customer.
 

TOK2000

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Isn't Oberlin one of those ultra-liberal colleges where conservatives are not welcome? If so it would seem like they live on the edge of outrage at social treatment of all minorities and any incident involving a minority is a reason to rise up against the man. Does it make any difference that the issue was an illegal fake ID used in attempt by a minor to buy liquor? No, I'm sure their default position is that if a minority is caught up in something like this it's because they are of color, and an underage white student would have been sold the booze and given a wink and a nod going out the door.
 

UTGrad91

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Isn't Oberlin one of those ultra-liberal colleges where conservatives are not welcome? If so it would seem like they live on the edge of outrage at social treatment of all minorities and any incident involving a minority is a reason to rise up against the man. Does it make any difference that the issue was an illegal fake ID used in attempt by a minor to buy liquor? No, I'm sure their default position is that if a minority is caught up in something like this it's because they are of color, and an underage white student would have been sold the booze and given a wink and a nod going out the door.
The student was trying to use a fake ID, yes, but the main issue was that he was also trying to shoplift two bottles of wine that he had under his shirt. The owner's son had the gall to try and stop him.
 

calvin farquhar

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Isn't Oberlin one of those ultra-liberal colleges where conservatives are not welcome? If so it would seem like they live on the edge of outrage at social treatment of all minorities and any incident involving a minority is a reason to rise up against the man. Does it make any difference that the issue was an illegal fake ID used in attempt by a minor to buy liquor? No, I'm sure their default position is that if a minority is caught up in something like this it's because they are of color, and an underage white student would have been sold the booze and given a wink and a nod going out the door.
They stole the wine. If that's Oberlins approach to this stuff they should be sued into bankruptcy.
 

DC Horn

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I live in ground zero of the oberlin type people. Now I’m curious about their perspectives. Some will parrot the oberlin position because, well, that’s what the do. Some will say there is some inherent racism because the owners would probably look the other way if it was a white student or some other twisted non-logical nonsense. And others will be mostly reasonable and think the college got too harsh of a sentence.

This will be fun.
 
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mcb0703!

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Interesting. Not 1 of the progressive females on this site has commented on this issue; I wonder why.
 

calvin farquhar

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Add another $33M in punitive damages. Oberlin to pay $44M total to the bakery owners
Ohio law will cap the punitive at twice the compensatory so it's limited to $22 million (2 x $11 million) and $33 million total. But, nice. I believe the community wide email ****ting on the juries decision was part of the punitive arguments. Oberlin whined the damages will negatively affect the students.
 

sacatomato horn

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Add another $33M in punitive damages. Oberlin to pay $44M total to the bakery owners
I thought that Oberlin would learn something from this $33 million lesson. Wrong. This is from the college president, "Twillie" today in the NYT:

In an email to the Oberlin community on Friday, Carmen Twillie Ambar, the college president, said that the case was far from over, and that “none of this will sway us from our core values.”

Oberlin tried to distance itself from the protesters in court papers, saying it should not be held responsible for their actions. It blamed the store for bringing its problems on itself.
“Gibson bakery’s archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests,” the college said. “The guilt or innocence of the students is irrelevant to both the root cause of the protests and this litigation.”
The dispute began on Nov. 9, 2016, when an Oberlin student tried to pay for a bottle of wine with a fake ID, and the store clerk noticed that the student had hidden two more bottles of wine under his coat, according to court papers.
 

calvin farquhar

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I thought that Oberlin would learn something from this $33 million lesson. Wrong. This is from the college president, "Twillie" today in the NYT:

In an email to the Oberlin community on Friday, Carmen Twillie Ambar, the college president, said that the case was far from over, and that “none of this will sway us from our core values.”

Oberlin tried to distance itself from the protesters in court papers, saying it should not be held responsible for their actions. It blamed the store for bringing its problems on itself.
“Gibson bakery’s archaic chase-and-detain policy regarding suspected shoplifters was the catalyst for the protests,” the college said. “The guilt or innocence of the students is irrelevant to both the root cause of the protests and this litigation.”
The dispute began on Nov. 9, 2016, when an Oberlin student tried to pay for a bottle of wine with a fake ID, and the store clerk noticed that the student had hidden two more bottles of wine under his coat, according to court papers.
Damn. Classic digging in by leftists that don't get it.

BTW, they were held liable for their actions, not those of the students.
 

padrehorn11

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Add another $33M in punitive damages. Oberlin to pay $44M total to the bakery owners
I suppose this is wicked of me, but that made me smile.

It's kind of ironic that the person associated with Oberlin who comes across best is the student who committed the crime, but owned up to his culpability and admitted there was no racism involved. OK, I imagine his defense attorney told him that would probably reduce his punishment, but I'd still give the kid probation and as a potential future employer not hold it against him if he stayed striaght. He screwed up, but it's not like it was an armed robbery. Now Ms. Raimondo, the Oberlin Student Senate, and Ms. Varner, well, I hope they 'enjoy' knowing they cost Oberlin $33 million. . Oh hell, those two idiot administrators will probably either get raises or move on to higher paid jobs elswhere.
 

theelusiveshadow

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I really don't understand the mindset of some of these idiots (to be fair, not everyone at Oberlin was on board with this behavior and got blasted for it by colleagues).

Just chill. Wait for evidence. Think through the evidence. It's not hard unless you have the maturity of a child. It's so sad that some of our schools are turning into places for crybabies and disingenuous fools.