Sen. Al Franken is next

windycityhorn

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What’s not hard?
Calling out an elected representative of the party you typically support, in the face of compelling evidence of sexual misconduct.

As a reminder, here's how not to do it:

Hannity said more time is required to properly assess the allegations because “I don’t rush to judgment” and this matter “should transcend politics.”

Hannity said he is confident the people of Alabama are capable of choosing their next senator wisely.

“I lived in Alabama,” Hannity told his viewers. “I enjoyed my time in Alabama I know these people — they are smart, great Americans. God, family, faith, country. I am very confident when everything comes out, they will make the best decision for their state.”
 

Duke Silver

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Calling out an elected representative of the party you typically support, in the face of compelling evidence of sexual misconduct.

As a reminder, here's how not to do it:

Hannity said more time is required to properly assess the allegations because “I don’t rush to judgment” and this matter “should transcend politics.”

Hannity said he is confident the people of Alabama are capable of choosing their next senator wisely.

“I lived in Alabama,” Hannity told his viewers. “I enjoyed my time in Alabama I know these people — they are smart, great Americans. God, family, faith, country. I am very confident when everything comes out, they will make the best decision for their state.”
You probably should’ve posted this on the Hannity message board then.
 

Shane3

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Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It
http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

This is bad and if recent history is any indication, there will be more stuff like this coming out about him.

It's unacceptable, and he should step down.

See guys? It's not that hard.
Good for you, Windy. My guess is that Franken isn't going away. I can't believe he was brazen enough to have someone take a picture! :(
 

texvet16

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Senator Al Franken Kissed and Groped Me Without My Consent, And There’s Nothing Funny About It
http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

This is bad and if recent history is any indication, there will be more stuff like this coming out about him.

It's unacceptable, and he should step down.

See guys? It's not that hard.
Good call @windycityhorn

So should Roy Moore

It's beyond me how any of this **** ( sexual harassment, sexual assault) is funny or was seen as acceptable behavior. I spent 26 years in the army and even as a young corporal ( 20 years old) I knew what sexual harassment / sexual assault was and I knew never to cross that line. How these jokers don't have the common decency to act appropriately as men who represent their constituents and the American people is absurdly pathetic.
 

mcb0703!

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I guess I'm confused. Is it now a race to condemn someone for something we all know is wrong in order to come across as righteous?
I don't know if it's a race, but more of a hypocrisy. Bill Clinton raped or assaulted 5 women; Dems consider him a messiah. Roy Moore accused of the same & should withdraw immediately...

Al Franken accused of the same & not a word from the lib blowhards on this board. $15M paid to Congressional staffers for similar incidents, tax payer money, but no idea of the names of those accused.

If Roy Moore should step down, why not Franken? Does Franken deserve the benefit of the doubt? If so, why not Moore?
 

Burnt Orange

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I don't know if it's a race, but more of a hypocrisy. Bill Clinton raped or assaulted 5 women; Dems consider him a messiah. Roy Moore accused of the same & should withdraw immediately...

Al Franken accused of the same & not a word from the lib blowhards on this board. $15M paid to Congressional staffers for similar incidents, tax payer money, but no idea of the names of those accused.

If Roy Moore should step down, why not Franken? Does Franken deserve the benefit of the doubt? If so, why not Moore?
I think you missed the OP's argument. He is a liberal who said Franken should step down. He is doing what you said he is not doing. I am confused. Did you not read it before posting here?
 

ole tnhorn

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It's beyond me how any of this **** ( sexual harassment, sexual assault) is funny or was seen as acceptable behavior. I spent 26 years in the army and even as a young corporal ( 20 years old) I knew what sexual harassment / sexual assault was and I knew never to cross that line.
Everyone including the perps knows this isn't funny or acceptable behavior or these events wouldn't occur unless the victim is isolated. This is about power and the willingness to abuse it to treat other people as if they weren't human. The power may be physical, money, opportunity, etc but the perp doesn't see the victim as an equal. It has gone on as long as mankind has existed. Thankfully we live in a country that has laws against this and finally now women feel confident exposing this behavior for what it is. I hate bullies.
 
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mcb0703!

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I think you missed the OP's argument. He is a liberal who said Franken should step down. He is doing what you said he is not doing. I am confused. Did you not read it before posting here?
I think you missed the point that I was responding to @Halas
 

windycityhorn

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I guess I'm confused. Is it now a race to condemn someone for something we all know is wrong in order to come across as righteous?
I take your point. It has, in fact, become just such a race. I'm as guilty as anyone.

There are going to be more of these stories coming out of Washington in the days and weeks to come. I liked Al Franken, I thought he was a good senator. I thought he was funny. I know a lot of folks here disagree.

Regardless, in politics as in show business, many powerful and famous men have acted horrendously toward women and gotten away with it for years. "When you're a star, they let you do it." If we're going to finally have a public reckoning, this is as good a time as any.
 

mcb0703!

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I take your point. It has, in fact, become just such a race. I'm as guilty as anyone.

There are going to be more of these stories coming out of Washington in the days and weeks to come. I liked Al Franken, I thought he was a good senator. I thought he was funny. I know a lot of folks here disagree.

Regardless, in politics as in show business, many powerful and famous men have acted horrendously toward women and gotten away with it for years. "When you're a star, they let you do it." If we're going to finally have a public reckoning, this is as good a time as any.
Agree to a point on Franken...I thought he added some humor to a stiff bunch. But his reputation is established, at least for the foreseeable future

& I hope the $15M settlement details are released to the public...let's add that to the reckoning
 

Halas

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I take your point. It has, in fact, become just such a race. I'm as guilty as anyone.

There are going to be more of these stories coming out of Washington in the days and weeks to come. I liked Al Franken, I thought he was a good senator. I thought he was funny. I know a lot of folks here disagree.

Regardless, in politics as in show business, many powerful and famous men have acted horrendously toward women and gotten away with it for years. "When you're a star, they let you do it." If we're going to finally have a public reckoning, this is as good a time as any.
I wasn’t directing it at you as much as it was a generic statement. I just don’t like the race to disavow these things for the sole purpose of elevating yourself. I believe from our interactions here you’re not that kind of dude.

There is a reckoning and it will be. It’s not red or blue it’s the drunken affects of power on people.

I’ve largely not commented on any of the Roy Moore thing because I’m not an Alabama voter. If they want to vote for a pedohpile for senate that is their god given right and they will get what they deserve.
 
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windycityhorn

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& I hope the $15M settlement details are released to the public...let's add that to the reckoning
Yep. I hope the Franken story focuses more attention on this. And that's just for the House. What has the Senate swept under the rug?
 

JG

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Good call @windycityhorn

So should Roy Moore

It's beyond me how any of this **** ( sexual harassment, sexual assault) is funny or was seen as acceptable behavior. I spent 26 years in the army and even as a young corporal ( 20 years old) I knew what sexual harassment / sexual assault was and I knew never to cross that line. How these jokers don't have the common decency to act appropriately as men who represent their constituents and the American people is absurdly pathetic.
It's not just politicians, it's apparently a whole lot of guys in power positions. I was taught the same things you were.

I learned the lesson EARLY. When I was in high school in Austin, I worked for Safeway, and I worked there til I graduated from UT. I still vividly remember that when I was about 18, upper management found out that the manager of our store (Burnet Road) was sleeping with one of the office girls. Poof! Bye-bye. They fired his ass on the spot. He was maybe mid-40s at the time, and he had spent 25 years working for them. All of a sudden, he's fired and there isn't anywhere else he can go.

I got the same lesson when I was working for an engineering company in the late 90s, before I started my own. I was the Dallas district manager for a company with about 120 employees. My boss was the CEO, and he was fairly young guy at the time, late 30s or very early 40s, and he was married with young kids at home. And he was busy screwing his secretary too. It was funny - my ex saw them together at a manager's retreat or something, and she knew it immediately. They know...you aren't fooling them...but anyway, his wife found out, and there was a big scene at the office.

And they fired his ass too.

Just don't do it. It will come back to haunt you.

PS Irony is so crazy. The woman that was the secretary of the CEO, and had an affair with him in 1999? She is still with that company...as head of HR now!!
 

Shane3

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It's not just politicians, it's apparently a whole lot of guys in power positions. I was taught the same things you were.

I learned the lesson EARLY. When I was in high school in Austin, I worked for Safeway, and I worked there til I graduated from UT. I still vividly remember that when I was about 18, upper management found out that the manager of our store (Burnet Road) was sleeping with one of the office girls. Poof! Bye-bye. They fired his ass on the spot. He was maybe mid-40s at the time, and he had spent 25 years working for them. All of a sudden, he's fired and there isn't anywhere else he can go.

I got the same lesson when I was working for an engineering company in the late 90s, before I started my own. I was the Dallas district manager for a company with about 120 employees. My boss was the CEO, and he was fairly young guy at the time, late 30s or very early 40s, and he was married with young kids at home. And he was busy screwing his secretary too. It was funny - my ex saw them together at a manager's retreat or something, and she knew it immediately. They know...you aren't fooling them...but anyway, his wife found out, and there was a big scene at the office.

And they fired his ass too.

Just don't do it. It will come back to haunt you.

PS Irony is so crazy. The woman that was the secretary of the CEO, and had an affair with him in 1999? She is still with that company...as head of HR now!!
I agree it's the power to control people, and it's definitely mostly a male problem, but it's not exclusively male. It's a human problem.
 

TOK2000

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I don't remember it that way, and the picture was not funny, I'm sorry. I don't know what else he could say, even if he did remember it exactly as she described it. I think that's become the standard, most of these guys feign ignorance, or they were drunk, but they are sorry.
 

Hiphopster

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I don't remember it that way, and the picture was not funny, I'm sorry. I don't know what else he could say, even if he did remember it exactly as she described it. I think that's become the standard, most of these guys feign ignorance, or they were drunk, but they are sorry.
There is a guy on twitter claiming to be the guy assigned to steward Franken around the ship while he was there the entire time. He claims to be an Independent that says the picture was staged--that there was never any groping of any kind. He also claims to never have witnessed any inappropriate behavior from Franken on any other occasions. He also questions Tweeden as someone with partisan aims that routinely goes on Hannity...thinks there is not so secret an agenda with the timing of the Moore situation that Hannity has ensnared himself in.

I will await the findings of the Senate Ethics Committee (that Franken has reportedly requested to happen on himself) report to see if there is any validity to this guy's counter story. If it turns out to have merit, I will look forward to Tweeden's response.

If not, Franken ought to resign. And now.
 

The_Major

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There is a guy on twitter claiming to be the guy assigned to steward Franken around the ship while he was there the entire time. He claims to be an Independent that says the picture was staged--that there was never any groping of any kind. He also claims to never have witnessed any inappropriate behavior from Franken on any other occasions. He also questions Tweeden as someone with partisan aims that routinely goes on Hannity...thinks there is not so secret an agenda with the timing of the Moore situation that Hannity has ensnared himself in.

I will await the findings of the Senate Ethics Committee (that Franken has reportedly requested to happen on himself) report to see if there is any validity to this guy's counter story. If it turns out to have merit, I will look forward to Tweeden's response.

If not, Franken ought to resign. And now.
I don't agree with forcing people to resign unless they committed a crime. I much prefer an honest apology and an acknowledgement that behavior can no longer be tolerated by anyone. Forcing Franken out isn't going to fix this. It's just red meat to feed the animals.
 
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texvet16

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It's not just politicians, it's apparently a whole lot of guys in power positions. I was taught the same things you were.

I learned the lesson EARLY. When I was in high school in Austin, I worked for Safeway, and I worked there til I graduated from UT. I still vividly remember that when I was about 18, upper management found out that the manager of our store (Burnet Road) was sleeping with one of the office girls. Poof! Bye-bye. They fired his ass on the spot. He was maybe mid-40s at the time, and he had spent 25 years working for them. All of a sudden, he's fired and there isn't anywhere else he can go.

I got the same lesson when I was working for an engineering company in the late 90s, before I started my own. I was the Dallas district manager for a company with about 120 employees. My boss was the CEO, and he was fairly young guy at the time, late 30s or very early 40s, and he was married with young kids at home. And he was busy screwing his secretary too. It was funny - my ex saw them together at a manager's retreat or something, and she knew it immediately. They know...you aren't fooling them...but anyway, his wife found out, and there was a big scene at the office.

And they fired his ass too.

Just don't do it. It will come back to haunt you.

PS Irony is so crazy. The woman that was the secretary of the CEO, and had an affair with him in 1999? She is still with that company...as head of HR now!!
JG, Great stories and life lessons! I will say this much from my vast experience in the army. There are two killers of careers for mid to senior leaders in the army, one of them is DUI's but the other one is inappropriate relationships. I've seen so many leaders get relieved of their duties for inappropriate relationships it's down right pathetic.
 

T-Horn

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I don't agree with forcing people to resign unless they committed a crime. I much prefer an honest apology and an acknowledgement that behavior can no longer be tolerated by anyone. Forcing Franken out isn't going to fix this. It's just red meat to feed the animals.
According to CNN, Franken can't even get that right.

No matter what your political affiliation, you have to see how inadequate Franken's first apology is. He a) insists that Tweeden is misremembering an episode in which he grabbed the back of your neck and stuck his tongue in her mouth during a "rehearsal" for a kissing scene and b) minimizes a photo in which he appears to be fondling her breasts while her eyes are closed as simply a joke -- albeit one in poor taste.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/franken-apology/index.html
 

Horns05

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AXE CAP
It's not just politicians, it's apparently a whole lot of guys in power positions. I was taught the same things you were.

I learned the lesson EARLY. When I was in high school in Austin, I worked for Safeway, and I worked there til I graduated from UT. I still vividly remember that when I was about 18, upper management found out that the manager of our store (Burnet Road) was sleeping with one of the office girls. Poof! Bye-bye. They fired his ass on the spot. He was maybe mid-40s at the time, and he had spent 25 years working for them. All of a sudden, he's fired and there isn't anywhere else he can go.

I got the same lesson when I was working for an engineering company in the late 90s, before I started my own. I was the Dallas district manager for a company with about 120 employees. My boss was the CEO, and he was fairly young guy at the time, late 30s or very early 40s, and he was married with young kids at home. And he was busy screwing his secretary too. It was funny - my ex saw them together at a manager's retreat or something, and she knew it immediately. They know...you aren't fooling them...but anyway, his wife found out, and there was a big scene at the office.

And they fired his ass too.

Just don't do it. It will come back to haunt you.

PS Irony is so crazy. The woman that was the secretary of the CEO, and had an affair with him in 1999? She is still with that company...as head of HR now!!
Interesting. She got to keep her job
 
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TOK2000

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There is a guy on twitter claiming to be the guy assigned to steward Franken around the ship while he was there the entire time. He claims to be an Independent that says the picture was staged--that there was never any groping of any kind. He also claims to never have witnessed any inappropriate behavior from Franken on any other occasions. He also questions Tweeden as someone with partisan aims that routinely goes on Hannity...thinks there is not so secret an agenda with the timing of the Moore situation that Hannity has ensnared himself in.

I will await the findings of the Senate Ethics Committee (that Franken has reportedly requested to happen on himself) report to see if there is any validity to this guy's counter story. If it turns out to have merit, I will look forward to Tweeden's response.

If not, Franken ought to resign. And now.
Why wouldn't Franken say as much in his statement. He seems to acknowledge the authenticity of the photo and says it was meant to be funny but it wasn't and he shouldn't have done it.
 
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JG

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JG, Great stories and life lessons! I will say this much from my vast experience in the army. There are two killers of careers for mid to senior leaders in the army, one of them is DUI's but the other one is inappropriate relationships. I've seen so many leaders get relieved of their duties for inappropriate relationships it's down right pathetic.
It is undefeated.
 
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Hiphopster

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Why wouldn't Franken say as much in his statement. He seems to acknowledge the authenticity of the photo and says it was meant to be funny but it wasn't and he shouldn't have done it.
Yep, that is a perfectly reasonable question, and one that I wonder about as well. My only guess is that if that guy on Twitter is telling the truth, Franken is trying to not take a shot at an accuser/woman. That doesn't go over well in this day and age, and rightfully so--assuming their claim is valid.

That said, if the guy is telling the truth, she needs to be called out for what she is trying to do, because as equally grotesque as Franken's behavior would be if it is true, so too would be the allegation against him if he did nothing wrong. And for nothing more than political gain.

I think he is trying to challenge her without calling her names or questioning her motives, at least at the beginning. If he did that, he would likely have most of womandom come down upon him. I think that is why he is the one that stated he wanted a Senate Ethics panel to look into it. Why do that if you know you are going to end up looking worse when the story is revealed?

I look forward to the resolution of this. I think it has the potential to really blow up if that guy is telling the truth. And if not, Franken needs to resign.
 

Duke Silver

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Yep, that is a perfectly reasonable question, and one that I wonder about as well. My only guess is that if that guy on Twitter is telling the truth, Franken is trying to not take a shot at an accuser/woman. That doesn't go over well in this day and age, and rightfully so--assuming their claim is valid.

That said, if the guy is telling the truth, she needs to be called out for what she is trying to do, because as equally grotesque as Franken's behavior would be if it is true, so too would be the allegation against him if he did nothing wrong. And for nothing more than political gain.

I think he is trying to challenge her without calling her names or questioning her motives, at least at the beginning. If he did that, he would likely have most of womandom come down upon him. I think that is why he is the one that stated he wanted a Senate Ethics panel to look into it. Why do that if you know you are going to end up looking worse when the story is revealed?

I look forward to the resolution of this. I think it has the potential to really blow up if that guy is telling the truth. And if not, Franken needs to resign.
Hahaha, "the guy on twitter."
 

Hiphopster

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Hahaha, "the guy on twitter."
I don't know his name. I grant that it sounds lacking in detail, but I came across it a couple of hours ago and did not flag it in anyway, so I will have to research to find it. If I do, I will post his thoughts-
 

scott_tiger

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Franken issued an apology. Tweeden accepted. He’s been universally condemned. There will be an ethics investigation and hopefully real consequences for him. Mostly adult type action on this so far.
 

Duke Silver

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I don't know his name. I grant that it sounds lacking in detail, but I came across it a couple of hours ago and did not flag it in anyway, so I will have to research to find it. If I do, I will post his thoughts-
Don’t do it on my account. I couldn’t care less about this.
 

Hiphopster

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Hahaha, "the guy on twitter."
I don't know his name. I grant that it sounds lacking in detail, but I came across it a couple of hours ago and did not flag it in anyway, so I will have to research to find it. If I do, I will post his thoughts-
Found it. The guys twitter handle is @TheTabbasco. Look under his Tweets and replies. Not on a computer where I can copy and paste his twitter feed right now.