The silly season is already upon us in the Big 12

clayinva

Member
Sep 9, 2020
27
33
0
So does anything less than winning out save Herman's job at this point? And is he gone even if he does win out?
 

40A

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Feb 20, 2012
12,946
6,440
0
Oklahoma City, OK
Yeah, the timing of this is bad due to Covid and all. Texas can either go all in on a guy like Urban or go cheap, get lucky, and find the next Dabo. The problem with option #2 is the luck part as going with an unproven coach is a huge risk. I should know being a Tennessee fan.
Swinney was at Clemson for 5-6 years prior to taking the HC role. It was certainly a risk but he understood the program, recruiting, etc. And had the players backing. Going with another young up and comer after trying it twice would be far more of a risk than what Clemson did with Dabo.
 

playbookgamer

Member
Jul 27, 2020
10
15
0
Swinney was at Clemson for 5-6 years prior to taking the HC role. It was certainly a risk but he understood the program, recruiting, etc. And had the players backing. Going with another young up and comer after trying it twice would be far more of a risk than what Clemson did with Dabo.
Nobody knew if Dabo would succeed there regardless of his time at Clemson before taking over, and it wasn't until year 4 before he got things going on an upward trend. There are examples of coaches who were in a program for a long time but never made it once they became HC. Barry Odom at Missouri comes to mind. All HC hires are a crapshoot, it's just that most programs that hire an Urban Meyer are trying to increase the percentages of getting it right.
 

40A

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Feb 20, 2012
12,946
6,440
0
Oklahoma City, OK
Nobody knew if Dabo would succeed there regardless of his time at Clemson before taking over, and it wasn't until year 4 before he got things going on an upward trend. There are examples of coaches who were in a program for a long time but never made it once they became HC. Barry Odom at Missouri comes to mind. All HC hires are a crapshoot, it's just that most programs that hire an Urban Meyer are trying to increase the percentages of getting it right.
The familiarity with players (who wanted him to stay), school, recruiting (top 5 recruiter in the nation as an assistant), etc all made it less of a crapshoot, is all I'm trying to say. Dabo had support of everyone but the boosters, who eventually got on board. Hindsight is 20/20, but it was far less of a risk than what was being said at the time.

We've tried to get lucky twice and failed. Can't take that risk again.
 

Geoff Eneman

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Nov 17, 2015
1,718
5,500
0
37
Monroe, LA formerly of Longview, TX
Thanks Ian! High praise coming from you.

I guess my question is, is Herman calling his own plays at UT? Because when he was OC at Ohio State, he did a pretty good job at finding talent (he was the one who brought JT Barrett to Columbus), and a fair job at spreading touches around. 2014 was one of the most dynamic offenses OSU has ever seen, that famously won a championship with a third-string QB. From Braxton Miller to Barrett to Cardale Jones, from Carlos Hyde to Zeke, from Devin Smith to Jalin Marshall to Mike Thomas, it seemed like you could just plug guys into the Meyer/Herman offense. And then when Herman left for UH, our offense cratered and didn't recover until Day was hired.

The co-OC in the interim was Tim Beck, and I'm inclined to view him as the root of a lot of Texas's problems just as he was the root of ours. In 2015, we returned 9 starters on offense, including Zeke and Mike Thomas, and our total offense declined by 70 yards/game. JT Barrett, who finished fifth in the 2014 Heisman voting, developed so little that people were openly calling for him to be benched his last two years. In particular, the Beck OSU offenses leaned heavily on QB runs, even though we had the best running back in program history in 2015 and a QB who was, pre-Beck, more of a quick passer than a Tebow-style fullback. When I've watched Texas the past few years, they've looked more like the 2015 and 2016 OSU offenses than when Herman was OC.

I might be wrong, but from a distance, I would put more of the blame on Beck than Herman. Beck has been horrible pretty much everywhere he's ever been - remember Taylor Martinez as a freshman vs. Taylor Martinez as a senior? His only real success ever was taking a 5'7" QB to an Orange Bowl, and even in retrospect, that looks more like Reesing being the first of the good Lake Travis QBs who just got overlooked because of his height. I guess this year will be a test. I don't really have an opinion on Mike Yurcich, he was only our OC for one year and it was Day's offense, but I'm afraid Beck already ruined Sam Ehlinger the way he ruined Barrett and Martinez.
The offense has been Herman's. We were all hoping that his hiring of Yurcich this season would allow him to back off and be more of a CEO than the OC, but that hasn't happened. The offense still resembles what Herman wants...a power spread run based team. It's mind numbing that the guy can't get out of his own way when it's obvious to anyone who watches the team that they play their best offensively when we spread it out, play fast and throw to set up the run.

Swinney was at Clemson for 5-6 years prior to taking the HC role. It was certainly a risk but he understood the program, recruiting, etc. And had the players backing. Going with another young up and comer after trying it twice would be far more of a risk than what Clemson did with Dabo.
And Dabo also struggled when he first got the job. It wasn't until he fired Napier as OC and brought in Morris and then Venables as DC that he turned things around. Once he made those moves things took off for him.


On another note, while I understand that the NFL is the pinnacle of coaching, I don't really understand why a top college coach would want to leave for the NFL. Even if you get control of personnel, it's nothing like what you can do in college. A top college coach like Saban, Dabo, Day, etc at a top program can literally stack their program with as much talent as he can fit into the roster limit with players that he wants without worry. He doesn't have to worry about free agency or contracts or anything. He also doesn't get penalized for winning by getting a lower draft place. It's the opposite in college. If you're winning you damn near get the pick of the litter.

Recruiting obviously isn't for everyone and some guys hate it, but to me all things being equal I would choose the college game nearly every time.
 

Ian Boyd

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Staff member
Jan 14, 2014
22,135
69,382
0
Ypsilanti, MI
On another note, while I understand that the NFL is the pinnacle of coaching, I don't really understand why a top college coach would want to leave for the NFL. Even if you get control of personnel, it's nothing like what you can do in college. A top college coach like Saban, Dabo, Day, etc at a top program can literally stack their program with as much talent as he can fit into the roster limit with players that he wants without worry. He doesn't have to worry about free agency or contracts or anything. He also doesn't get penalized for winning by getting a lower draft place. It's the opposite in college. If you're winning you damn near get the pick of the litter.
If you're a coach that thrives with X's and O's and actual coaching rather than all of the roster management, then the NFL is a dream compared to college.
 

sherf1

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Dec 8, 2018
8,483
25,960
0
If you're a coach that thrives with X's and O's and actual coaching rather than all of the roster management, then the NFL is a dream compared to college.
Seems like a young man's game on that front though.

The Xs and Os are so specific to a moment in time, it takes a truly special combination of intelligence and humility to pioneer a new system, have it run it's course, and be willing to re-invent (or pass the reigns to the next young guy OC with the bright ideas). Obviously the best case there is Belichick, although I would argue defense is a bit easier in that regard because there's fewer options.

I'll be very interested to see where Riley is 10 years down the line. We didn't get to see the cycle play out with Briles but I get the feeling he would have kept banging his head against the wall as teams adapted and slowed him down.