This is a perfect explanation of why Trump is President

Shane3

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calvin farquhar

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There's steering into the skid to get back on course. There's over correcting causing the back end to whip around resulting in a fatal crash. The dems are doing the latter with these issues. I am fine with it. F 'em
 

ole tnhorn

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Can anyone explain, aside from increasing their membership, why the Democratic party favors ignoring and or violating current immigration laws? They must be other reasons but all I've ever seen written were to increase their numbers and that explanation almost certainly came from the right.
 

TEXBTP

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Can anyone explain, aside from increasing their membership, why the Democratic party favors ignoring and or violating current immigration laws? They must be other reasons but all I've ever seen written were to increase their numbers and that explanation almost certainly came from the right.
We need the workers. We don’t have enough people to do the work needed to keep growing. We don’t get enough from legal immigration and our birth rates are lower than death rates.
 

The_Major

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Can anyone explain, aside from increasing their membership, why the Democratic party favors ignoring and or violating current immigration laws? They must be other reasons but all I've ever seen written were to increase their numbers and that explanation almost certainly came from the right.
Cheap labor.
 

ttaghorn

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We need the workers. We don’t have enough people to do the work needed to keep growing. We don’t get enough from legal immigration and our birth rates are lower than death rates.
I would agree to a minute extent, but ask that you keep in mind, it takes fewer people to do the same amount of work as in past years, due to automation, robotics, computerization, and downsizing at almost all Company's.
 

ole tnhorn

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We need the workers. We don’t have enough people to do the work needed to keep growing. We don’t get enough from legal immigration and our birth rates are lower than death rates.
Thanks. We can achieve that through legal immigration with much better results.
 
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The_Major

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People swimming the river to cross the border aren't the types we need. There are already too few jobs for the uneducated. If we are going to import, we need to make sure we import people that add not subtract from the economy.
 

TEXBTP

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People swimming the river to cross the border aren't the types we need. There are already too few jobs for the uneducated. If we are going to import, we need to make sure we import people that add not subtract from the economy.
Tell that to the ag community in Texas and CA.
 
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TEXBTP

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Those jobs need to be filled by guest workers who go back home and live in Mexico.
I’ve heard that for 30 years. I no confidence that will be done.
In the meantime it’s not proper to demonize the people that come here and grow our food.
 

TEXBTP

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It would be done in a second if we secured the border and ended the supply of cheap labor.
I disagree. Maybe if we enforced e verify if something like that.

It is my opinion that the great majority of undocumented workers are people that overstay visas. There are papers that come away with this conclusion.
This is not a border security problem, it is s labor problem, if it’s a problem at all.
 

JG

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Read his comments.

He looks at the issue as hurting the American worker. It’s not an unreasonable position.
Hmm. If they are hurting the American worker, then why have guest workers at all? He is saying we should have guest workers, but send them home.
 

TEXBTP

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Hmm. If they are hurting the American worker, then why have guest workers at all? He is saying we should have guest workers, but send them home.
I’m not going to speculate on that.
For me, the need for workers is why the govt should allow them to come. If they must go home after the working season is over then they don’t set up roots here. The policy should be only people that go through the proper channels should be able to live here permanently.
It sounds nice on paper but controlling the flow of millions of immigrants every year is a logistical and administrative nightmare. The benefits of that policy are just not worth the costs.
 

padrehorn11

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HA.Try to find American citizens for those jobs, or the hard stuff like roofers, sheet rock floaters, painters and other relative low skill but difficult construction jobs. Or landscaping. It's hard work when you can do ok by selling dope or sponging off your current lady friend instead. After Harvey the Feds quit raiding construction sites in he Houston area for quite a while because there weren't enough laborers to ever finish the restoration without them.

382,000 jobs in the construction industry were unfilled in December, 2018.
 

ttaghorn

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Why do you want them to “go home to Mexico”?
I swear if he were to blow his brains out he would shoot himself in his ass. Does this sound like the racist card, or not.
 

padrehorn11

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They come here to work and when the work is over they go home to Mexico so we aren't burdened by their social costs such as health care, educating their children, etc.
Right. These are mostly not temporary jobs we're talking about, although in parts of agriculture, some workers have to move from one job or area to another.

As to the social cost of educating their families, you're right. Why on earth would we want to educate more young people, especially since the birth rate among American citizens, as in most advanced economies, doesn't come up to the required replacement rate.

Aww never mind, we've had this discussion before and you and I aren't going to agree. I won't try and confuse the issue with any documented statistics.
 

ttaghorn

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The meat packing industry in the Mid West has for a great many years employed workers for Central America on a "guest worker permit" basis, and its been highly successful. They come with a temporal visa good for 6 months and go back home, if they don't go back and they get caught without a valid work permit, they can never re-apply for another temporal visa. It works if the employer will help in enforcing the visa statues.
 

Shane3

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We need the workers. We don’t have enough people to do the work needed to keep growing. We don’t get enough from legal immigration and our birth rates are lower than death rates.

A third of Guatemalans plan to immigrate to the US
 

TEXBTP

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A third of Guatemalans plan to immigrate to the US
How many of the 5MM do you think will actually come.
We should just do my plan and annex Tge rest of America and make our southern border the Panama Canal and our northern border the Arctic ocean.
I kid but I always thought it would be cool to fully control the continent.
 
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The_Major

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HA.Try to find American citizens for those jobs, or the hard stuff like roofers, sheet rock floaters, painters and other relative low skill but difficult construction jobs. Or landscaping. It's hard work when you can do ok by selling dope or sponging off your current lady friend instead. After Harvey the Feds quit raiding construction sites in he Houston area for quite a while because there weren't enough laborers to ever finish the restoration without them.

382,000 jobs in the construction industry were unfilled in December, 2018.

That's because the home building industry will only pay for cheap labor. In the 70's being a framer or roofer was a great gig. People who play by the rules can't afford to run a legal crew anymore. It's nearly impossible to employ legal trades, pay insurance and make any profit as framer today. The Mexican crews will have one legal guy and the rest are illegal and uninsured. Americans can't compete with that.
 

jamesrh

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HA.Try to find American citizens for those jobs, or the hard stuff like roofers, sheet rock floaters, painters and other relative low skill but difficult construction jobs. Or landscaping. It's hard work when you can do ok by selling dope or sponging off your current lady friend instead. After Harvey the Feds quit raiding construction sites in he Houston area for quite a while because there weren't enough laborers to ever finish the restoration without them.

382,000 jobs in the construction industry were unfilled in December, 2018.
Even for the skilled trades the average age is climbing every year because not nearly enough young people are becoming electricians, plumbers, etc.
 
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Shane3

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How many of the 5MM do you think will actually come.
We should just do my plan and annex Tge rest of America and make our southern border the Panama Canal and our northern border the Arctic ocean.
I kid but I always thought it would be cool to fully control the continent.
Let Canada try to stop us! ;)
 

UTGrad91

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Right. These are mostly not temporary jobs we're talking about, although in parts of agriculture, some workers have to move from one job or area to another.

As to the social cost of educating their families, you're right. Why on earth would we want to educate more young people, especially since the birth rate among American citizens, as in most advanced economies, doesn't come up to the required replacement rate.

Aww never mind, we've had this discussion before and you and I aren't going to agree. I won't try and confuse the issue with any documented statistics.
No need to educate the kids since they won't even be here. Workers come alone and when the work is done they go home. Win for us and win for them compared to what they could earn back home.
 

padrehorn11

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No need to educate the kids since they won't even be here. Workers come alone and when the work is done they go home. Win for us and win for them compared to what they could earn back home.
But why would it not be a good thing to educate more children in the U.S. ? I mean hell, I pay for lots of other folks kid's educations now. Why should the social cost be higher just because the ones in question would be Hispanic? Or am I misunderstanding you?
 

UTGrad91

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But why would it not be a good thing to educate more children in the U.S. ? I mean hell, I pay for lots of other folks kid's educations now. Why should the social cost be higher just because the ones in question would be Hispanic? Or am I misunderstanding you?
What's hard to understand? The workers come here, the kids stay at home so obviously we won't be educating them.
 

Horns05

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But why would it not be a good thing to educate more children in the U.S. ? I mean hell, I pay for lots of other folks kid's educations now. Why should the social cost be higher just because the ones in question would be Hispanic? Or am I misunderstanding you?
We should educate everyone. Unfortunately, we cannot afford too.
 

padrehorn11

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We should educate everyone. Unfortunately, we cannot afford too.
I'm not talking about everyone in the world, just the children of non-citizens working here long-term and legally. I mean they aren't any different to me than your kids so if I have to pay to educate yours because we think it's a net economic benefit, wouldn't pretty much the same hold true for long term resident-alien families and especially their birthright citizen children? If educating them isn't a long-term economic benefit why am I paying for educating anyone else's kids? Especially since it appears that the children of immigrants tend to be at least as educationally and economically successful as the kids of multi generation citizens. The stats are skewed by Asian versus Hispanic immigrants as far as educational attainment, but as with the fact that 2nd gen Hispanics tend to vote almost as Democratic as their parents, but I don't believe any more so than their age group peers, perhaps a bit less actually. I think that means, in the first case society, and the second the Republican Party just needs to do a better job. Here are the some of the stats I'm looking at (admittedly from the Pew lefties, and stats can be slippery) but still, I think they're meaningful. They are from 2013 too but other than the tilt to the Dems (I believe in a large part caused by Trump's opposition to DACA--which I personally think is dumb [but not racist] for several reasons). https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/02/07/second-generation-americans/
43734437354373643737
 
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JG

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I'm not talking about everyone in the world, just the children of non-citizens working here long-term and legally. I mean they aren't any different to me than your kids so if I have to pay to educate yours because we think it's a net economic benefit, wouldn't pretty much the same hold true for long term resident-alien families and especially their birthright citizen children? If educating them isn't a long-term economic benefit why am I paying for educating anyone else's kids? Especially since it appears that the children of immigrants tend to be at least as educationally and economically successful as the kids of multi generation citizens. The stats are skewed by Asian versus Hispanic immigrants as far as educational attainment, but as with the fact that 2nd gen Hispanics tend to vote almost as Democratic as their parents, but I don't believe any more so than their age group peers, perhaps a bit less actually. I think that means, in the first case society, and the second the Republican Party just needs to do a better job. Here are the some of the stats I'm looking at (admittedly from the Pew lefties, and stats can be slippery) but still, I think they're meaningful. They are from 2013 too but other than the tilt to the Dems (I believe in a large part caused by Trump's opposition to DACA--which I personally think is dumb [but not racist] for several reasons). https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/02/07/second-generation-americans/
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One of the things this tells you is that immigrants today really aren’t all that different from prior generations. It has always taken a couple of generations for immigrant families to become truly Americanized. Today’s immigrants won’t be any different.
 

eodhorn

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I'm not talking about everyone in the world, just the children of non-citizens working here long-term and legally. I mean they aren't any different to me than your kids so if I have to pay to educate yours because we think it's a net economic benefit, wouldn't pretty much the same hold true for long term resident-alien families and especially their birthright citizen children? If educating them isn't a long-term economic benefit why am I paying for educating anyone else's kids? Especially since it appears that the children of immigrants tend to be at least as educationally and economically successful as the kids of multi generation citizens. The stats are skewed by Asian versus Hispanic immigrants as far as educational attainment, but as with the fact that 2nd gen Hispanics tend to vote almost as Democratic as their parents, but I don't believe any more so than their age group peers, perhaps a bit less actually. I think that means, in the first case society, and the second the Republican Party just needs to do a better job. Here are the some of the stats I'm looking at (admittedly from the Pew lefties, and stats can be slippery) but still, I think they're meaningful. They are from 2013 too but other than the tilt to the Dems (I believe in a large part caused by Trump's opposition to DACA--which I personally think is dumb [but not racist] for several reasons). https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/02/07/second-generation-americans/
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My honest hang-up with illegal vs legal immigration is not value based. It’s undeniable that they provide a valuable workforce. What I do have problems with is the educational process that goes on when someone goes through the process legally. History, pride at being an American (This is not a bad thing), the ability to speak English, basic understanding of government structures and functions are all part of a healthy assimilation process. That doesn’t happen with illegal immigration. They tend to be an entirely separate society, which works against the entire idea of a melting pot society.