Trump hits China with IP Theft and Major Sanctions?

bHero

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https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/politics/trump-china-zte-nothing-has-happened/index.html

ZTE and Huawei getting more into US mobile communications is a terrible idea. Mike Baker gets into this from a CIA POV on the Joe Rogan thread.

Basically, China's going to use the phones to steal IP, Data and everything it can from US businesses and citizens. Because that's what they have always done.

Mike Baker did say they were great phones and good tech, but China's a bad actor with regards to US interests, and the number 1 perpetrator of cyber theft and industrial espionage.

Trump admin gets kudos for getting a ban in place for ZTE and Huawei getting their US operations shut down.
"Last month, the US Commerce Department blocked American firms from selling parts or providing services to ZTE until 2025. Washington accused ZTE of violating US sanctions on North Korea and Iran and then lying to US officials about whether the employees responsible were punished."

"The ban was put in place after Washington said ZTE violated a deal in which the Chinese company agreed to pay a $1.2 billion fine for evading US sanctions on Iran and North Korea."

This is a death sentence to ZTE. It was #4 in US behind LG. Now the doors have been shuttered and the stock de-listed. This was a direct action due to Chinese IP theft. ZTE has little chance of surviving unless the white house steps in and allows US firms to resupply them.

CNN Reports on Chinese IP Damages to US.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/23/technology/china-us-trump-tariffs-ip-theft/index.html?iid=EL
"The United States Trade Representative, which led the seven-month investigation into China's intellectual property theft and made recommendations to the Trump administration, found that "Chinese theft of American IP currently costs between $225 billion and $600 billion annually."

I bring this up because Trump has now mentioned giving them a way back to US or US friendly markets. His idiotic trade talk is coming out of both sides of his mouth. They are economy thieves and murders, and we're finally punishing them for it. Don't screw this up by putting it back on the alter of "trade deals."
 

The_Major

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https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/politics/trump-china-zte-nothing-has-happened/index.html

ZTE and Huawei getting more into US mobile communications is a terrible idea. Mike Baker gets into this from a CIA POV on the Joe Rogan thread.

Basically, China's going to use the phones to steal IP, Data and everything it can from US businesses and citizens. Because that's what they have always done.

Mike Baker did say they were great phones and good tech, but China's a bad actor with regards to US interests, and the number 1 perpetrator of cyber theft and industrial espionage.

Trump admin gets kudos for getting a ban in place for ZTE and Huawei getting their US operations shut down.
"Last month, the US Commerce Department blocked American firms from selling parts or providing services to ZTE until 2025. Washington accused ZTE of violating US sanctions on North Korea and Iran and then lying to US officials about whether the employees responsible were punished."

"The ban was put in place after Washington said ZTE violated a deal in which the Chinese company agreed to pay a $1.2 billion fine for evading US sanctions on Iran and North Korea."

This is a death sentence to ZTE. It was #4 in US behind LG. Now the doors have been shuttered and the stock de-listed. This was a direct action due to Chinese IP theft. ZTE has little chance of surviving unless the white house steps in and allows US firms to resupply them.

CNN Reports on Chinese IP Damages to US.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/23/technology/china-us-trump-tariffs-ip-theft/index.html?iid=EL
"The United States Trade Representative, which led the seven-month investigation into China's intellectual property theft and made recommendations to the Trump administration, found that "Chinese theft of American IP currently costs between $225 billion and $600 billion annually."

I bring this up because Trump has now mentioned giving them a way back to US or US friendly markets. His idiotic trade talk is coming out of both sides of his mouth. They are economy thieves and murders, and we're finally punishing them for it. Don't screw this up by putting it back on the alter of "trade deals."

Why we never should have gotten in bed with them in the first place. Now they can do what they want and any effort we try to make to rein in bad behavior punishes our businesses as well. Which basically mean we won't be limiting their bad behavior.
 
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bHero

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Good or bad, this administration is actually doing some fairly dramatic things that all presidents say they will do, but we never see.

Moved the Israeli Embassy to Jerusalem, we've hit the Chinese for IP theft, started lowering business taxes (still too high), and we've allowed the invoking of trade reciprocity.

Not bad.
 

bHero

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Why we never should have gotten in bed with them in the first place. Now they can do what they want and any effort we try to make to rein in bad behavior punishes our businesses as well. Which basically mean we won't be limiting their bad behavior.
We're going to take a few hits not matter what we do. ZTE shutdown impacted Corning and Qualcom as major suppliers. Corning glass said their losses won't be material. Qualcom said this will cost them about 44m a quarter.

The economic loss is much less than the forced tech transfer and ip theft. That's estimated at hundreds of billions a year that China steals. We had not taken any significant economic actions against them, ever, for this IP theft.

People will say that it will hurt our businesses if we punish them, or that China will hit us back with tariffs. Neither of those will cost us more than we have been losing, and China had been relying on our lack of political willpower to keep the status quo. We were doing nothing as they robbed us. Our politicians were too scared to take action, or complicit.

Now we don't know what the fruit of this will be, but I'm intrigued by the developments.
 

The_Major

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We're going to take a few hits not matter what we do. ZTE shutdown impacted Corning and Qualcom as major suppliers. Corning glass said their losses won't be material. Qualcom said this will cost them about 44m a quarter.

The economic loss is much less than the forced tech transfer and ip theft. That's estimated at hundreds of billions a year that China steals. We had not taken any significant economic actions against them, ever, for this IP theft.

People will say that it will hurt our businesses if we punish them, or that China will hit us back with tariffs. Neither of those will cost us more than we have been losing, and China had been relying on our lack of political willpower to keep the status quo. We were doing nothing as they robbed us. Our politicians were too scared to take action, or complicit.

Now we don't know what the fruit of this will be, but I'm intrigued by the developments.
Yet here we are talking about letting them off the hook because hurting ZTE hurts us. Can someone running things please look beyond the next quarter when deciding policy?
 

bHero

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Yet here we are talking about letting them off the hook because hurting ZTE hurts us. Can someone running things please look beyond the next quarter when deciding policy?
This isn't the only avenue we're looking at attacking their IP theft on. Schools are a big problem, with roughly 350K international students in the US from China, over 1/3, and the the #1 field of study being Artificial Intelligence, with Tech dominating area's of study. The admin has restrictions to greatly reduce or eliminate international study in several post-graduate, doctoral and tech undergrad fields. One project in Berkely had 38 phd students, with 30 from china, working on a Defense Project. Insane. The regulations would target F1/J1 status students (aka most), who are not permanent residents and normally have to go back home after college.

Also a campaign has been successful in removing the Confucius Institutes from US colleges. Study done by Feds and reported to congress called the Institute a propaganda tool and intelligence gathering apparatus, used to steal IP at colleges and research institutes, try to shape public opinion on china, and whitewash their history.

Again, the goal is to target China's aggressive and immoral practices. They have been taking advantage of our laziness, abusing our open research system, stealing us IP through espionage and forced tech transfer (e.g. doing business in China requires a local partner, who will usually then pirate your IP, start their own company and run you out of business).

So use throwing the book at China here will cause a lot of discomfort I'm sure. It must have, because we've never had a politician or congress step up and do something about it.
 
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bHero

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Lol...

"The U.S. clothing retailer Gap apologized Tuesday for selling T-shirts with a map of China that didn't include self-ruled Taiwan, the latest example of corporate kowtowing to Beijing.

Upon the realization that one of our T-shirts sold in some overseas markets mistakenly failed to reflect the correct map of China, we urgently launched an internal investigation across the group and have decided to immediately pull back this T-shirt from all the concerned global markets," the company said in a statement, adding that the shirts had already been pulled from Chinese shelves and destroyed."
 

HornsUp

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Yet here we are talking about letting them off the hook because hurting ZTE hurts us. Can someone running things please look beyond the next quarter when deciding policy?
You think that's the primary reason?
 

Duke Silver

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Schools are a big problem, with roughly 350K international students in the US from China, over 1/3, and the the #1 field of study being Artificial Intelligence, with Tech dominating area's of study. The admin has restrictions to greatly reduce or eliminate international study in several post-graduate, doctoral and tech undergrad fields.
I've advocated this approach before for Muslim countries who can't control their radicals. See how much they'll clamp down when the nation's elite children can't go to Stanford, Oxford, Harvard, etc.
 

Toadvine

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I've advocated this approach before for Muslim countries who can't control their radicals. See how much they'll clamp down when the nation's elite children can't go to Stanford, Oxford, Harvard, etc.
I tend to think time in America in college is a good hedge against radicalization.
 

bHero

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I tend to think time in America in college is a good hedge against radicalization.
Not for the Chinese. The trend is going in the opposite direction. They have also just appointed their president for life, installed a “social score” system to grade your citizenship, which will impact their people’s ability to purchase and travel based on their social media data, have cameras in schools to monitor facial expressions, and have a host of other insane facist and propaganda strategies.

Their forced tech transfer and cyber operations are equally outrageous. It’s going to cost Amazon over 10 billion because they fell for it. They allowed their AWS (cloud platform) to be owned by their Chinese “partner” so they could have access to China’s markets. Now China can figure out how to hack AWS, which was a preferred vendor for DoD hosting. No more. And the Chinese partner will pirate the IP and start their own company just like they do every other company.
 

Shane3

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We're going to take a few hits not matter what we do. ZTE shutdown impacted Corning and Qualcom as major suppliers. Corning glass said their losses won't be material. Qualcom said this will cost them about 44m a quarter.

The economic loss is much less than the forced tech transfer and ip theft. That's estimated at hundreds of billions a year that China steals. We had not taken any significant economic actions against them, ever, for this IP theft.

People will say that it will hurt our businesses if we punish them, or that China will hit us back with tariffs. Neither of those will cost us more than we have been losing, and China had been relying on our lack of political willpower to keep the status quo. We were doing nothing as they robbed us. Our politicians were too scared to take action, or complicit.

Now we don't know what the fruit of this will be, but I'm intrigued by the developments.
Great. We finally have a POTUS with a spine and he’s a jerk. I’ve disliked the guy for decades, but I have to admit he gets things done.
 

Shane3

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Lol...

"The U.S. clothing retailer Gap apologized Tuesday for selling T-shirts with a map of China that didn't include self-ruled Taiwan, the latest example of corporate kowtowing to Beijing.

Upon the realization that one of our T-shirts sold in some overseas markets mistakenly failed to reflect the correct map of China, we urgently launched an internal investigation across the group and have decided to immediately pull back this T-shirt from all the concerned global markets," the company said in a statement, adding that the shirts had already been pulled from Chinese shelves and destroyed."
The Onion?
 

Shane3

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This isn't the only avenue we're looking at attacking their IP theft on. Schools are a big problem, with roughly 350K international students in the US from China, over 1/3, and the the #1 field of study being Artificial Intelligence, with Tech dominating area's of study. The admin has restrictions to greatly reduce or eliminate international study in several post-graduate, doctoral and tech undergrad fields. One project in Berkely had 38 phd students, with 30 from china, working on a Defense Project. Insane. The regulations would target F1/J1 status students (aka most), who are not permanent residents and normally have to go back home after college.

Also a campaign has been successful in removing the Confucius Institutes from US colleges. Study done by Feds and reported to congress called the Institute a propaganda tool and intelligence gathering apparatus, used to steal IP at colleges and research institutes, try to shape public opinion on china, and whitewash their history.

Again, the goal is to target China's aggressive and immoral practices. They have been taking advantage of our laziness, abusing our open research system, stealing us IP through espionage and forced tech transfer (e.g. doing business in China requires a local partner, who will usually then pirate your IP, start their own company and run you out of business).

So use throwing the book at China here will cause a lot of discomfort I'm sure. It must have, because we've never had a politician or congress step up and do something about it.
We have been stupid and arrogant for far too long. China is still a Communist nation and they’re going to be huge trouble for the world.
 
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windycityhorn

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Great. We finally have a POTUS with a spine and he’s a jerk. I’ve disliked the guy for decades, but I have to admit he gets things done.
I’ve always hated Thanos, but I have to admit he gets things done.
 

TEXBTP

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Thanos was the best character in that movie. I root for him.
 

windycityhorn

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Honestly I never agreed with Thanos’s policy of killing half the universe. I suspected he was a bad guy. He brought some shady characters into his administration, like Black Dwarf and Ebony Maw. But he has appointed good judges who will not reinterpret the ancient codex. The economy is booming. Mutant unemployment is at its lowest level ever. He has slashed job-killing regulations. And now his work to bring about peace talks with the evil Skrull Empire is bearing fruit.

The Avengers and their media lackeys have been trying to bring him down for a year and what do they have to show for it? Nothing. It’s time to end this Witch Hunt and let Thanos do his job.
 

bHero

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Trump is number one! All others are number two, or lower.
While I agree Trump is essentially urine, and conceptually I can also agree that most of the world, including many of you, are feces, I still feel your second sentence is a bit overbroad.

These two comments encapsulate the public dialogue, perfectly.

I kind of want this framed below a bronze bust of Mark Zuckerberg wearing a MAGA hat and riding a giant twitter bird.
 

bHero

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Honestly I never agreed with Thanos’s policy of killing half the universe. I suspected he was a bad guy. He brought some shady characters into his administration, like Black Dwarf and Ebony Maw. But he has appointed good judges who will not reinterpret the ancient codex. The economy is booming. Mutant unemployment is at its lowest level ever. He has slashed job-killing regulations. And now his work to bring about peace talks with the evil Skrull Empire is bearing fruit.

The Avengers and their media lackeys have been trying to bring him down for a year and what do they have to show for it? Nothing. It’s time to end this Witch Hunt and let Thanos do his job.
Exactly. He's brought balance to everything. What. Could. Possibly. Go. Wrong?

P.S. This analogy is actually pretty apropos. I wouldn't ascribe Trump the kinda of gravitas, conviction or power that Thanos has, though.
 

Shane3

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https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/16/politics/trump-china-zte-nothing-has-happened/index.html

ZTE and Huawei getting more into US mobile communications is a terrible idea. Mike Baker gets into this from a CIA POV on the Joe Rogan thread.

Basically, China's going to use the phones to steal IP, Data and everything it can from US businesses and citizens. Because that's what they have always done.

Mike Baker did say they were great phones and good tech, but China's a bad actor with regards to US interests, and the number 1 perpetrator of cyber theft and industrial espionage.

Trump admin gets kudos for getting a ban in place for ZTE and Huawei getting their US operations shut down.
"Last month, the US Commerce Department blocked American firms from selling parts or providing services to ZTE until 2025. Washington accused ZTE of violating US sanctions on North Korea and Iran and then lying to US officials about whether the employees responsible were punished."

"The ban was put in place after Washington said ZTE violated a deal in which the Chinese company agreed to pay a $1.2 billion fine for evading US sanctions on Iran and North Korea."

This is a death sentence to ZTE. It was #4 in US behind LG. Now the doors have been shuttered and the stock de-listed. This was a direct action due to Chinese IP theft. ZTE has little chance of surviving unless the white house steps in and allows US firms to resupply them.

CNN Reports on Chinese IP Damages to US.
http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/23/technology/china-us-trump-tariffs-ip-theft/index.html?iid=EL
"The United States Trade Representative, which led the seven-month investigation into China's intellectual property theft and made recommendations to the Trump administration, found that "Chinese theft of American IP currently costs between $225 billion and $600 billion annually."

I bring this up because Trump has now mentioned giving them a way back to US or US friendly markets. His idiotic trade talk is coming out of both sides of his mouth. They are economy thieves and murders, and we're finally punishing them for it. Don't screw this up by putting it back on the alter of "trade deals."
The Aussies are smarter than us.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/australia-bans-huawei-from-5g-network-over-security-concerns/ar-BBMjH6H?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Australia bans Huawei from 5G network over security concerns
 

calvin farquhar

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