What a magnificent trainwreck... (Alex Jones)

mcb0703!

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Feb 6, 2015
13,026
21,284
0
Some of the Alex Jones "theories"...confirmed, @Toadvine supports the bold

The government is employing weather weapons
The government is using chemicals to turn people and frogs gay.
The life-ruining Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) Vaccine is being pushed on young women around the world.
Bill Gates' philanthropic work is part of a mass eugenics effort.
The government created the Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) epidemic.
The Sandy Hook shooting was staged to promote gun control.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2018/08/16/alex-jones-top-10-health-claims-and-why-they-are-wrong/#60248603e7f5
 
  • Like
Reactions: Toadvine and bHero

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
Some of the Alex Jones "theories"...confirmed, @Toadvine supports the bold

The government is employing weather weapons
The government is using chemicals to turn people and frogs gay.
The life-ruining Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) Vaccine is being pushed on young women around the world.
Bill Gates' philanthropic work is part of a mass eugenics effort.
The government created the Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) epidemic.
The Sandy Hook shooting was staged to promote gun control.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2018/08/16/alex-jones-top-10-health-claims-and-why-they-are-wrong/#60248603e7f5
Oh, AJ gets waaaaay crazier than this list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TexasPalladin

Hiphopster

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Mar 12, 2012
15,482
1,860
0
Sorry, I didn't clarify. What I meant to say is that his opinion about the media slandering him around Sandy Hook is right.

He never actually said that Sandy Hook was a staged event, as is purported.
He said it was a false flag operation to further sow division and foster mistrust of our government. He's the democracy endangering version of yelling fire in a crowded theater.

He used the deaths of those kids for his own purposes and caused immense personal damage on those parents. Some of his classless and deranged followers have even gone so far as giving death threats to those grieving familes for being part of a government conspiracy. Whatever purposes he had for doing it all matters not. He's human trash. I wouldn't piss on him to end his suffering if he was on fire.
 

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
He said it was a false flag operation to further sow division and foster mistrust of our government. He's the democracy endangering version of yelling fire in a crowded theater.

He used the deaths of those kids for his own purposes and caused immense personal damage on those parents. Some of his classless and deranged followers have even gone so far as giving death threats to those grieving familes for being part of a government conspiracy. Whatever purposes he had for doing it all matters not. He's human trash. I wouldn't piss on him to end his suffering if he was on fire.
The reason he's in legal trouble (according to the pundits) is because he was going around saying it looks like a false flag operation run by the democrats, but personally believed that it was not a false flag operation and only repeated it to drive ratings and fundraising. The guy is immature and has some lessons he's going to learn the hard way through his legal troubles, but he's not trash. You should listen to the man himself instead of letting political sites tell you how to feel.

I've never been to his website or watched his shows or listened to him on the radio, it's just not my thing. But I have listened to him in several interviews and seen clips cut for interviews (which is also why I don't go to his sites), and it's pretty clear that although he's constantly skeptical of the government and projects "them" into every facet of world events, he's not a bad person. Just drank too much of his own juice and now has to pay the price.
 

acreativeusername

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Nov 27, 2016
2,865
5,544
0
The reason he's in legal trouble (according to the pundits) is because he was going around saying it looks like a false flag operation run by the democrats, but personally believed that it was not a false flag operation and only repeated it to drive ratings and fundraising. The guy is immature and has some lessons he's going to learn the hard way through his legal troubles, but he's not trash. You should listen to the man himself instead of letting political sites tell you how to feel.

I've never been to his website or watched his shows or listened to him on the radio, it's just not my thing. But I have listened to him in several interviews and seen clips cut for interviews (which is also why I don't go to his sites), and it's pretty clear that although he's constantly skeptical of the government and projects "them" into every facet of world events, he's not a bad person. Just drank too much of his own juice and now has to pay the price.
You’re kinda reaching here. He is 100% trash, lol. That’s pretty easy to gather when you listen to even a couple of his bat**** theories that he entertains
 

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
You’re kinda reaching here. He is 100% trash, lol. That’s pretty easy to gather when you listen to even a couple of his bat**** theories that he entertains
I don't think anyone is trash because I disagree with his theories. I think @Hiphopster has some of the craziest theories I've ever seen and I don't think he's trash. Misguided, yes. Troubled, maybe (talking about AJ). But listening to the podcast I actually like the guy. He's just a giant, loud, immature, intelligent person.
 

acreativeusername

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Nov 27, 2016
2,865
5,544
0
I don't think anyone is trash because I disagree with his theories. I think @Hiphopster has some of the craziest theories I've ever seen and I don't think he's trash. Misguided, yes. Troubled, maybe (talking about AJ). But listening to the podcast I actually like the guy. He's just a giant, loud, immature, intelligent person.
He becomes trash when he purposefully spreads dangerous and objectively false ideas to his massive audience. That’s a huge difference between Hip and him

And it’s not a “theory” when the stuff he entertains is false. It’s just plain bull****
 

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
Okay, @Duke Silver - here's a crazy one.

1:53:00 in - he starts talking about vaccines. Starts off saying that they work, but stuff is being added. But then it takes a twist.

In the late 1940's the US Government started injecting people with gonorrhea and syphilis, on purpose, without telling them or informing them, including institutionalized mental patients. Then once found, the patients were encourage to pass the infection on to others, as part of the study.

Which sounded nuts, right up until the producer pulls up the story from NBC News where Hillary Clinton apologized on behalf of the goverment for it in 2010.



I need to go back and find where they were talking about human-pig hybrids. That sounded completely insane, but, sure enough, they pulled up the actual news article covering it.

There's also the part where Alex Jones talks about how the police were paid to start the Seattle WTO riots in 1999, and the US Special Forces Delta Force was involved. Which sounds equally insane. Until I google it, and sure enough, there it is. Here's a link from and interview with him in Esquire Magazine, from a reporter who was actually at the riots in 1999 and confirms most of what he says. https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a24396/talking-to-alex-jones-0913/ .

"Even now, this still sounds crazy to me. Classic Alex Jones overkill. The police riot is bad enough — does he have to add America's most elite and secretive counterinsurgency team? And don't we have a law that forbids military operations on American soil? But as soon as I fire up a search engine, I find a news clip reporting that the Special Forces "took up residence in a Regrade motel and fanned out downtown dressed as demonstrators," with some others "wearing their jungle greens."
 

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
He becomes trash when he purposefully spreads dangerous and objectively false ideas to his massive audience. That’s a huge difference between Hip and him

And it’s not a “theory” when the stuff he entertains is false. It’s just plain bull****
I think you're off base quite a bit and conflating him with people like David Brock. Often, when I take the time to actually look into what's going on with some big story of someone, I find out the facts are not the same as they are reported on Fox or CNN. This guy is no different. I'm not going to start defending his work because I'm not an advocate of his show or website, nor would I recommend them, but I've learned enough today to make it easy to see the guy isn't trash. He's into conspiracy theories and presents them with overkill, and he speculates wildly, but he's not out there telling people to harass anyone or even confront them (like our politicians do), and I've looked into enough on his podcast today to see that he's not wrong in all of his speculation.

Maybe take a step back and think about what you are saying. Because there's a lot of people on CNN/Fox and Capital Hill purposefully spreading "fake news" and knowingly presenting false representations of events. Every day. Is everyone from Humanity to Anderson Cooper, and Trump to Chuck Schumer trash presenting bull****? Is Maxine Watters trash for calling on people to harass politicians? Or is Corey Booker for agreeing with her and defending her? Or is Sarah Huckabee Sanders for defending Trump "dangerous and objectively false" ideas or giving fake theories and lies to the press on questions? This guy didn't even cross the same lines they have.

Look, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what AJ's culpability or liability is wrt to the Sandy Hook defamation lawsuit or stuff he used to peddle (or what he said or believed). I just know he's not a bad guy and it's obvious after listening and looking into his stories and coverage today. Again, I'm not an advocate and wouldn't recommend his website or radio show, nor do I listen or visit.
 
Last edited:

acreativeusername

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Nov 27, 2016
2,865
5,544
0
I think you're off base quite a bit and conflating him with people like David Brock. Often, when I take the time to actually look into what's going on with some big story of someone, I find out the facts are not the same as they are reported on Fox or CNN. This guy is no different. I'm not going to start defending his work because I'm not an advocate of his show or website, nor would I recommend them, but I've learned enough today to make it easy to see the guy isn't trash. He's into conspiracy theories and presents them with overkill, and he speculates wildly, but he's not out there telling people to harass anyone or even confront them (like our politicians do), and I've looked into enough on his podcast today to see that he's not wrong in all of his speculation.

Maybe take a step back and think about what you are saying. Because there's a lot of people on CNN/Fox and Capital Hill purposefully spreading "fake news" and knowingly presenting false representations of events. Every day. Is everyone from Humanity to Anderson Cooper, and Trump to Chuck Schumer trash presenting bull****? Is Maxine Watters trash for calling on people to harass politicians? Or is Corey Booker for agreeing with her and defending her? Or is Sarah Huckabee Sanders for defending Trump "dangerous and objectively false" ideas or giving fake theories and lies to the press on questions? This guy didn't even cross the same lines they have.

Look, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know what AJ's culpability or liability is wrt to the Sandy Hook defamation lawsuit or stuff he used to peddle (or what he said or believed). I just know he's not a bad guy and it's obvious after listening and looking into his stories and coverage today.
If anyone here needs to take a step back, it’s you. Saying he’s not a bad guy is laughable. Not sure why you’re trying to make him out like some decent person, but do what you gotta do, man

I’ve gladly called out fake reporting or fake news, and so have you. But after one Joe Rogan interview, he’s just nice old Mr Jones to you? Is that all it takes? Taking one day to look into his coverage? Haha
 

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
1:57:00

Alex Jones Says:
1962 the Joint Chiefs of Staff approved a false flag operation and submitted it to John F. Kennedy, where they would "blow up buildings, shoot up schools and movie theaters, bomb army and marine bases and blow up planes." One operation would have a plane take off, loaded with people, then land in secret as a drone plane would take off and be blown up in mid-air.

Google Says:
Alex is mostly correct, but this didn't get very far. Covered by PBS and ABC news. Was a moot point when the Russian put missiles in Cuba and aimed them at Florida a few months later.
Operation Northwoods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Operation Mongoose: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Project
And the official declassified documents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Apparently there a trove of documents on the govs websites on all this stuff. google "operation northwoods site: .gov"

Our government is stupid for even considering this stuff.
 
Last edited:

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
If anyone here needs to take a step back, it’s you. Saying he’s not a bad guy is laughable. Not sure why you’re trying to make him out like some decent person, but do what you gotta do, man

I’ve gladly called out fake reporting or fake news, and so have you. But after one Joe Rogan interview, he’s just nice old Mr Jones to you? Is that all it takes? Taking one day to look into his coverage? Haha
So I watch the interview and actually research the guy and I need to take a step back because I don't have the opinion that he's bad? You don't think that's an ironic recommendation, given that you formed your opinion without doing any research? Doesn't that sound like the opposite of how judgement and is supposed to work?

I was only trying to be a little bit of a smartass.

If you have been around me on this board for a while you'd see that this is my process. I don't just take what the media says is going on, especially political sites, because most often they are wrong. I'll put in the work and learn about the subject if it's interesting enough. This guy is definitely different. Not sure what you've read to form such a visceral opinion, but I'm guessing we probably didn't read the same things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TexasPalladin

acreativeusername

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Nov 27, 2016
2,865
5,544
0
So I watch the interview and actually research the guy and I need to take a step back because I don't have the opinion that he's bad? You don't think that's an ironic recommendation, given that you formed your opinion without doing any research? Doesn't that sound like the opposite of how judgement and is supposed to work?

I was only trying to be a little bit of a smartass.

If you have been around me on this board for a while you'd see that this is my process. I don't just take what the media says is going on, especially political sites, because most often they are wrong. I'll put in the work and learn about the subject if it's interesting enough. This guy is definitely different. Not sure what you've read to form such a visceral opinion, but I'm guessing we probably didn't read the same things.
You seem to assume I’ve done no research myself

I was also being a smartass, throwing in some laughs to lighten the mood. Your defense of him seemed personal to me, like you need to be right about him and any who question his character are wrong and misinformed

I figured you’d respond like this once your boy Joe Rogan got behind him ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: bHero

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
You seem to assume I’ve done no research myself

I was also being a smartass, throwing in some laughs to lighten the mood. Your defense of him seemed personal to me, like you need to be right about him and any who question his character are wrong and misinformed

I figured you’d respond like this once your boy Joe Rogan got behind him ;)
Joe and AJ have been friends since the 90's. They are a couple of tinfoil hat wearing kindred spirits, separated from birth.

My defense of him was probably more rooted, wrongly, in my pride. I've formed a judgement about the nature of the man and was defending that more than him. Not really wise. Actually foolish when you don't think the guy is playing with a full set of marbles.

But, like I said, I like the guy. It's hard not to if you listen to him. It's clear he's got some sort of emotional development disorder. Like giant man-baby disease or something. But we all have something we are struggling with. It's also pretty clear that he thinks he's going to lose, at least in part, on the lawsuits. I get the impression that probably half the people suing him will get half of what they ask for. So, he gets to start from nothing again, and hopefully he's learned his lesson. And it sounds like it on the show. He's still loud and full of piss and vinegar, but not mean spirited, and overkills every morsel of truth he uncovers. The guy has some fascinating stories that are rooted in facts that I can easily verify, but then he goes from 2 straight to 10 and it's just overkill.

You should try to listen, it's just him and Joe hanging out. Then Eddie Bravo show up and he's a flat-earther. Joe gives him **** about it pretty relentlessly, but you can tell the are still friends in the end. As embarrassing as it is, those 3 potheads are showing us how politics is supposed to work. Not the ridicolous non-stop brinkmanship and obstructionism we see today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: acreativeusername

Toadvine

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Aug 22, 2013
32,251
76,473
0
Austin
I have a buddy here in Austin who is a pretty well known photographer -- he's frequently hired by national magazines to do local cover shoots and such. Anyway, someone (can't remember the magazine) hired him to do a shoot with Alex Jones, which devolved into Jones ordering a bunch of ribs and eating them shirtless than ranting and raving throughout the session. My buddy's takeaway was that he was a nice enough guy personally, but that he's legitimately unhinged and he believes crazier things than he says publicly.
 

W.W. McClyde

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Nov 30, 2010
21,574
21,842
0
Austin/Dallas
I have a buddy here in Austin who is a pretty well known photographer -- he's frequently hired by national magazines to do local cover shoots and such. Anyway, someone (can't remember the magazine) hired him to do a shoot with Alex Jones, which devolved into Jones ordering a bunch of ribs and eating them shirtless than ranting and raving throughout the session. My buddy's takeaway was that he was a nice enough guy personally, but that he's legitimately unhinged and he believes crazier things than he says publicly.
Two or three years ago, there was a birthday dinner for a great friend of @DHolcroftIV 's and mine at a steakhouse here in town. Fairly large party. About 12 of us, I think. Semi-private room, and they said they'd only seat a couple or two on the other side if at all. We're about 1/3 of the way through the proceedings, and in walks the maitre 'd -- looking nervous and apologetic -- with a loud and inappropriately-dressed party of about 10.

It was Alex Jones and some of his bootlickers. And for the next hour +, we felt like we were trapped in a cinder-block basement with a vociferous band of wasted Trekkies. It was awful.
 

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
I have a buddy here in Austin who is a pretty well known photographer -- he's frequently hired by national magazines to do local cover shoots and such. Anyway, someone (can't remember the magazine) hired him to do a shoot with Alex Jones, which devolved into Jones ordering a bunch of ribs and eating them shirtless than ranting and raving throughout the session. My buddy's takeaway was that he was a nice enough guy personally, but that he's legitimately unhinged and he believes crazier things than he says publicly.
That's exactly my impression. And that's also how my 2 year old eats.


Two or three years ago, there was a birthday dinner for a great friend of @DHolcroftIV 's and mine at a steakhouse here in town. Fairly large party. About 12 of us, I think. Semi-private room, and they said they'd only seat a couple or two on the other side if at all. We're about 1/3 of the way through the proceedings, and in walks the maitre 'd -- looking nervous and apologetic -- with a loud and inappropriately-dressed party of about 10.

It was Alex Jones and some of his bootlickers. And for the next hour +, we felt like we were trapped in a cinder-block basement with a vociferous band of wasted Trekkies. It was awful.
Haha. That actually isn't funny. He's loud as ****. Hopefully he didn't order the ribs.
 
Last edited:

acreativeusername

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Nov 27, 2016
2,865
5,544
0
Joe and AJ have been friends since the 90's. They are a couple of tinfoil hat wearing kindred spirits, separated from birth.

My defense of him was probably more rooted, wrongly, in my pride. I've formed a judgement about the nature of the man and was defending that more than him. Not really wise. Actually foolish when you don't think the guy is playing with a full set of marbles.

But, like I said, I like the guy. It's hard not to if you listen to him. It's clear he's got some sort of emotional development disorder. Like giant man-baby disease or something. But we all have something we are struggling with. It's also pretty clear that he thinks he's going to lose, at least in part, on the lawsuits. I get the impression that probably half the people suing him will get half of what they ask for. So, he gets to start from nothing again, and hopefully he's learned his lesson. And it sounds like it on the show. He's still loud and full of piss and vinegar, but not mean spirited, and overkills every morsel of truth he uncovers. The guy has some fascinating stories that are rooted in facts that I can easily verify, but then he goes from 2 straight to 10 and it's just overkill.

You should try to listen, it's just him and Joe hanging out. Then Eddie Bravo show up and he's a flat-earther. Joe gives him **** about it pretty relentlessly, but you can tell the are still friends in the end. As embarrassing as it is, those 3 potheads are showing us how politics is supposed to work. Not the ridicolous non-stop brinkmanship and obstructionism we see today.
I always appreciate your depth of research and information gathering

You may also be better than me at listening to him NOW and being understanding/hearing what he has to say. It’s tough for me to look past things he’s said in the past and not think he’s a terrible person

That applies to a great deal of media. Knowingly spreading falsehoods to sow discord/anger = trash.

If he’s turning a corner, then kudos to him. Just difficult to absolve him in my mind. I also don’t have 4 hours to watch this interview. Maybe on my flight to Sydney tomorrow haha
 

Toadvine

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Aug 22, 2013
32,251
76,473
0
Austin
That's exactly my impression. And that's also how my 2 year old eats.
To his credit/debit, he is apparently a true believer. I was interested in whether he was doing an entertainment bit like Rush Limbaugh (who apparently doesn't believe in much of anything but making money) or whether he actually believed some of the wilder **** he says, and apparently he believes it all and even more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bHero

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
To his credit/debit, he is apparently a true believer. I was interested in whether he was doing an entertainment bit like Rush Limbaugh (who apparently doesn't believe in much of anything but making money) or whether he actually believed some of the wilder **** he says, and apparently he believes it all and even more.
I read up on his history and it appears to have started with his dad. His dad went to UT, was in the Honor Society, Silver Spurs and The Alcalde. Went to Baylor, got a degree in dentistology, and had an active practice until 2018 when he joined InfoWars as head of HR (wut?). He also owns over a dozen small oil leases, most look dry today. Mostly boring normal people stuff.

He seeded little Jones with over 20K to get started and supposedly got him his first book on crazology. I discard most of what Alex himself says about his dad, since I couldn't prove it. What I have seen does look like the root of the tree starts there. The one thing of note in AJ's comments reminiscing about his dad (and his dad's brother) seems to be the over-romanticism of his childhood. He's always saying that his dad was a dentist to the CIA and has brother was involved to and all kinds of other secret agent stuff. Overall, it sounds not like peter pan syndrome, but just old fashioned immaturity.
 

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
I always appreciate your depth of research and information gathering

You may also be better than me at listening to him NOW and being understanding/hearing what he has to say. It’s tough for me to look past things he’s said in the past and not think he’s a terrible person

That applies to a great deal of media. Knowingly spreading falsehoods to sow discord/anger = trash.

If he’s turning a corner, then kudos to him. Just difficult to absolve him in my mind. I also don’t have 4 hours to watch this interview. Maybe on my flight to Sydney tomorrow haha
Thanks. I had to stop listening for work, he keeps breaking my concentration with his outbursts. I only started because I thought it was going to be a disaster. It still is, just not the type I expected. It ends up being 3 guys getting drunk and spitballing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: acreativeusername

Duke Silver

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Oct 29, 2008
48,688
41,422
0
1:57:00

Alex Jones Says:
1962 the Joint Chiefs of Staff approved a false flag operation and submitted it to John F. Kennedy, where they would "blow up buildings, shoot up schools and movie theaters, bomb army and marine bases and blow up planes." One operation would have a plane take off, loaded with people, then land in secret as a drone plane would take off and be blown up in mid-air.

Google Says:
Alex is mostly correct, but this didn't get very far. Covered by PBS and ABC news. Was a moot point when the Russian put missiles in Cuba and aimed them at Florida a few months later.
Operation Northwoods. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
Operation Mongoose: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Project
And the official declassified documents: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Apparently there a trove of documents on the govs websites on all this stuff. google "operation northwoods site: .gov"

Our government is stupid for even considering this stuff.
None of the Cuba stuff is new.

This guy is a waste of time.
 

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
Another crazy one.

2:16:30 in - He started talking about how the government started our space program using Nazi's brought over after WWII. Says over 30,000 were brought over.

Other guy brings up Operation Paperclip, Alex Jones says that isn't all it was. Then he brings up the Frank Church Committee, 1976.

By this time, he's no longer calling the producer Jaime. He's calling him "search engine." Says "hey search engine, - the total number admitted, congressional hearing, Frank Church committee, in the 1970s, I believe the number was 34,200 and something. Look it up."

And up comes this 642 page Congressional document (when I did it):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Church_Committee_report_(Book_I,_Foreign_and_Military_Intelligence).pdf

5 Sections have been deleted or had chapters removed, as noted by the committee, "Cover," "Espionage," "Budgetary Oversight," "Covert Action of the CIA," "Department of State" have been deleted at the request of the agencies. And the usual cavalcade of changes at request and annotations. Summay Findings begin on page 423. Your eyes will bleed.

It has all kinds of crazy findings.

Like starting on page 420:
...Research and development programs to find materials which could be used to alter human behavior were initiated in the late 1940s and early 1950s. These experimental programs originally included testing of drugs involving witting human subjects, and culminated in tests using unwitting, nonvolunteer human subjects. These tests were designed to determine the potential effects of chemical or biological agents when used operationally against individuals unaware that they had received a drug.
...
CIA Inspector General that, "the knowledge that the Agency is engaging in unethical and illicit activities would have serious repercussions in political and diplomatic circles and would be detrimental to the accomplishment of its missions."
...
Project CHATTER was a Navy program that began in the fall of 1947. Responding to reports of "amazing results" achieved by the Soviets in using "truth drugs," the program focused on the identification and testing of such drugs for use in interrogations and in the recruitment of agents. The research included laboratory experiments on animals and human subjects involving Anabasis aphylla, scopolamine, and mescaline in order to determine their speech-inducing qualities. Overseas experiments were conducted as part of the project. The project expanded substantially during the Korean War, and ended shortly after the war, in 1953...
...
Project BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE The earliest of the CIA's major programs involving the use of chemical and biological agent s... ' Overseas interrogations utilizing a combination of sodium pentothal and hypnosis after physical and psychiatric examinations of the subjects' ...

MK NAOMI was another major CIA program in this area. In 1967,the CIA simmarized [sic] the purposes of MKNAOMI:
...
(b) To stockpile severely incapacitating and lethal materials for the specific use of TSD [Technical Services Division].
(c) To maintain in operational readiness special and unique items for the dissemination of biological and chemical materials.
...
Under an agreement reached with the Army in 1952, the Snecial [sic] Operations Division (SOD) at Fort Detrick was to assist CIA in developing, testing, and maintaining biological agents and delivery systems. By this agreement, CIA acquired the knowledge, skill, and facilities of the Army to develop biological weapons suited for CIA use. SOD developed darts coated with biological agents and pills containing several different biological agents which could remain potent for weeks or months. SOD also developed a special gun for firing darts coated with a chemical which could allow CIA agents to incapacitate a guard dog, enter an installation secretly, and return the dog to consciousness when leaving. SOD scientists were unable to develop a similar incapacitant for humans. SOD also physically transferred to CIA personnel biological agents in "bulk" form, and delivery devices, including some containing biological agents. In addition to. [sic] the CIA's interest in biological weapons for use against humans, it also asked SOD to study use of biological agents against crops and animals. In its 1967 memorandum, the CIA stated:
"Three methods and systems for carrying out a covert attack against crops and causing severe crop loss have been developed and evaluated under field conditions."...
...

MK ULTRA was the principal CIA program involving the research and development of chemical and biological agents. It was "concerned with the research and development of chemical, biological, and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior."...
...
"additional avenues to the control of human behavior" were designated as appropriate for investigation... These include "radiation, electroshock, various fields of psychology, psychiatry, sociology, and anthropology, graphology, harassment substances, and paramilitary devices and materials."...
...
The test subjects were volunteer prisoners who, after taking a brief physical examination and signing a general consent form, were administered hallucinogenic drugs. As a reward for participation in the program, the addicts were provided with the drug of their addiction.
...
"Some subjects have been informers or members of suspect criminal elements from whom the [Bureau of Narcoticsl has obtained results of onerational [sic] value through the tests. On the other hand, the effectiveness of the substances on individuals at all social levels, high and low, native American and foreign, is of great significance and testing has been performed on a variety of individuals within these categories."
...
Drugs were used primarily as an aid to interrogations, but MKULTRA/MKDELTA materials were also-used for harassment, discrediting, or disabling purposes... the CIA had developed six drugs for operational use and they had been used in six different operations on a total of thirty-three subjects. By 1963 the number of operations and subjects had increased substantially...
...

In hindsight:
... "(2) To contain, or roll back, "communism" in the "free world" by subverting Communist, crypto-Communist, or radical leftist governments (the labels were attached by the National Security Council) in Iran, in Guatemala, and, finally, in Cuba; by supporting non Communist governments threatened by Communists in the Third World, culminating in Laos and South Vietnam; and by supporting "democratic" parties, labor unions, and intellectuals mainly in Europe during the shaky 1950s, and in Latin America during the 1960s [and Chile]."
Boy, that worked like a charm.

I stopped looking after that. I found the other reports and don't feel like wading through thousands of pages trying to find all the different operations used to bring over Nazi Scientists.

There's a lot of crazy stuff in those reports though. Like a bunch of failed assassination plots, FBI operations regarding Martin Luther King, propaganda and smear campaigns, and all that other shady stuff. Our government has some messed up people in it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Shane3

Duke Silver

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Oct 29, 2008
48,688
41,422
0
Another crazy one.

2:16:30 in - He started talking about how the government started our space program using Nazi's brought over after WWII. Says over 30,000 were brought over.

Other guy brings up Operation Paperclip, Alex Jones says that isn't all it was. Then he brings up the Frank Church Committee, 1976.

By this time, he's no longer calling the producer Jaime. He's calling him "search engine." Says "hey search engine, - the total number admitted, congressional hearing, Frank Church committee, in the 1970s, I believe the number was 34,200 and something. Look it up."

And up comes this 642 page Congressional document (when I did it):
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Church_Committee_report_(Book_I,_Foreign_and_Military_Intelligence).pdf

5 Sections have been deleted or had chapters removed, as noted by the committee, "Cover," "Espionage," "Budgetary Oversight," "Covert Action of the CIA," "Department of State" have been deleted at the request of the agencies. And the usual cavalcade of changes at request and annotations. Summay Findings begin on page 423. Your eyes will bleed.

It has all kinds of crazy findings.

Like starting on page 420:
...Research and development programs to find materials which could be used to alter human behavior were initiated in the late 1940s and early 1950s. These experimental programs originally included testing of drugs involving witting human subjects, and culminated in tests using unwitting, nonvolunteer human subjects. These tests were designed to determine the potential effects of chemical or biological agents when used operationally against individuals unaware that they had received a drug.
...
CIA Inspector General that, "the knowledge that the Agency is engaging in unethical and illicit activities would have serious repercussions in political and diplomatic circles and would be detrimental to the accomplishment of its missions."
...
Project CHATTER was a Navy program that began in the fall of 1947. Responding to reports of "amazing results" achieved by the Soviets in using "truth drugs," the program focused on the identification and testing of such drugs for use in interrogations and in the recruitment of agents. The research included laboratory experiments on animals and human subjects involving Anabasis aphylla, scopolamine, and mescaline in order to determine their speech-inducing qualities. Overseas experiments were conducted as part of the project. The project expanded substantially during the Korean War, and ended shortly after the war, in 1953...
...
Project BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE The earliest of the CIA's major programs involving the use of chemical and biological agent s... ' Overseas interrogations utilizing a combination of sodium pentothal and hypnosis after physical and psychiatric examinations of the subjects' ...

MK NAOMI was another major CIA program in this area. In 1967,the CIA simmarized [sic] the purposes of MKNAOMI:
...
(b) To stockpile severely incapacitating and lethal materials for the specific use of TSD [Technical Services Division].
(c) To maintain in operational readiness special and unique items for the dissemination of biological and chemical materials.
...
Under an agreement reached with the Army in 1952, the Snecial [sic] Operations Division (SOD) at Fort Detrick was to assist CIA in developing, testing, and maintaining biological agents and delivery systems. By this agreement, CIA acquired the knowledge, skill, and facilities of the Army to develop biological weapons suited for CIA use. SOD developed darts coated with biological agents and pills containing several different biological agents which could remain potent for weeks or months. SOD also developed a special gun for firing darts coated with a chemical which could allow CIA agents to incapacitate a guard dog, enter an installation secretly, and return the dog to consciousness when leaving. SOD scientists were unable to develop a similar incapacitant for humans. SOD also physically transferred to CIA personnel biological agents in "bulk" form, and delivery devices, including some containing biological agents. In addition to. [sic] the CIA's interest in biological weapons for use against humans, it also asked SOD to study use of biological agents against crops and animals. In its 1967 memorandum, the CIA stated:
"Three methods and systems for carrying out a covert attack against crops and causing severe crop loss have been developed and evaluated under field conditions."...
...

MK ULTRA was the principal CIA program involving the research and development of chemical and biological agents. It was "concerned with the research and development of chemical, biological, and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior."...
...
"additional avenues to the control of human behavior" were designated as appropriate for investigation... These include "radiation, electroshock, various fields of psychology, psychiatry, sociology, and anthropology, graphology, harassment substances, and paramilitary devices and materials."...
...
The test subjects were volunteer prisoners who, after taking a brief physical examination and signing a general consent form, were administered hallucinogenic drugs. As a reward for participation in the program, the addicts were provided with the drug of their addiction.
...
"Some subjects have been informers or members of suspect criminal elements from whom the [Bureau of Narcoticsl has obtained results of onerational [sic] value through the tests. On the other hand, the effectiveness of the substances on individuals at all social levels, high and low, native American and foreign, is of great significance and testing has been performed on a variety of individuals within these categories."
...
Drugs were used primarily as an aid to interrogations, but MKULTRA/MKDELTA materials were also-used for harassment, discrediting, or disabling purposes... the CIA had developed six drugs for operational use and they had been used in six different operations on a total of thirty-three subjects. By 1963 the number of operations and subjects had increased substantially...
...

In hindsight:
... "(2) To contain, or roll back, "communism" in the "free world" by subverting Communist, crypto-Communist, or radical leftist governments (the labels were attached by the National Security Council) in Iran, in Guatemala, and, finally, in Cuba; by supporting non Communist governments threatened by Communists in the Third World, culminating in Laos and South Vietnam; and by supporting "democratic" parties, labor unions, and intellectuals mainly in Europe during the shaky 1950s, and in Latin America during the 1960s [and Chile]."
Boy, that worked like a charm.

I stopped looking after that. I found the other reports and don't feel like wading through thousands of pages trying to find all the different operations used to bring over Nazi Scientists.

There's a lot of crazy stuff in those reports though. Like a bunch of failed assassination plots, FBI operations regarding Martin Luther King, propaganda and smear campaigns, and all that other shady stuff. Our government has some messed up people in it.
I just thought the guy was always making up stories about "them" and "the government." No, he just reads too much and the embellishes the hell out of it and makes up stuff about what it all means.
Governments have done some terrible things, especially when it thinks it’s doing it for the historically right reasons. Now, stopping an expansionary ideology like communism probably was the right reason. But it was hard and bad things had to be done and considered. Let’s look up what the Soviet government did, too.
 

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
Governments have done some terrible things, especially when it thinks it’s doing it for the historically right reasons. Now, stopping an expansionary ideology like communism probably was the right reason. But it was hard and bad things had to be done and considered. Let’s look up what the Soviet government did, too.
Very fair point. Stalin makes these guys look like the Peace Corps. I need to better contextualize the circumstance surrounding the events before I start extrapolating it to today's world. Or I'll end up like this guy.

After reading through the stuff we admitted to doing I can see how a person like AJ would get wrapped up in ferreting out government deception, and it makes you wonder how bad the **** must be that we didn't admit to. To any rational mind this doesn't extrapolate to a worldview that there's a government boogeyman lurking behind every tragic event and major news cycle. But I doubt AJ has been accused of being rational.

I probably should have just left the fact checking up to Search Engine and saved myself the trip down through the dark days of the congressional archives. It's pretty safe to say the he knows what he's talking about on this stuff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Duke Silver

Snuggles

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jul 19, 2015
2,794
5,084
0
44
Very fair point. Stalin makes these guys look like the Peace Corps. I need to better contextualize the circumstance surrounding the events before I start extrapolating it to today's world. Or I'll end up like this guy.

After reading through the stuff we admitted to doing I can see how a person like AJ would get wrapped up in ferreting out government deception, and it makes you wonder how bad the **** must be that we didn't admit to. To any rational mind this doesn't extrapolate to a worldview that there's a government boogeyman lurking behind every tragic event and major news cycle. But I doubt AJ has been accused of being rational.

I probably should have just left the fact checking up to Search Engine and saved myself the trip down through the dark days of the congressional archives. It's pretty safe to say the he knows what he's talking about on this stuff.
Have you ever read Focault’s Pendulum? If not, I highly recommend it. It’s a fantantastic explanation as to why these rabbit holes are so dangerous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bHero

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
Have you ever read Focault’s Pendulum? If not, I highly recommend it. It’s a fantantastic explanation as to why these rabbit holes are so dangerous.
No I haven't. But I'm very anti-conspiracy theory on the macro level. I attribute 99% of them to patternicity, or the tendency to find patterns in meaningless noise. Michael Shermer, PhD (founder/head of The Skeptics Society, EIC of Skeptic Magazine) coined the term about a decade ago and I've liked it since I've found it.

People have to have more than a pattern attributive to motive when forming a belief (or a conspiracy theory), otherwise it might be just unrelated noise. And man, Alex Jones creates a lot of noise.

On the flip side, there are patterns that do signal something. The noise just far outweighs the signals in daily life. So most people, like me, ignore them, unless they want to be entertained (like the book you recommended, or the AJ interview here).

In the world of apolgetics and fringe topics, the cliche used is the "signal to noise ratio."

My latest example of this would be The Russia-Trump investigation. It has a very low score on the ratio. Anything less than one means more garbage than meaning. Most of what we see, read and hear is just noise. But, there's probably a few things going on that are worth looking in to. Same thing for the Cohen interview. If you go into it knowing most of the events will meaningless then you can try to focus on what is actually important. That's why when it was discussed on here I said it was just being used to pivot the investigations from Russia-Trump to Trump's Businesses and Personal life. I based that judgment on what happened with Whitewater and events that took before, during and after Cohen's testimony. But I largely discarded his actual testimony as noise.

Now, in the case of Alex Jones, he has no credibility. He lies (seemingly) about his personal life constantly. His says his dad was some secret agent dentist, his dad's brother a CIA guy, his grandfather a soldier that knew about the Nazis in the US. He's friends with dozens of astronauts and CIA guys and whistelblowers and whatever else. He's just telling stories and personifying events he suspects to have occurred and creating personal anecdotes to lend them credence. Likely to get attention, be entertaining and make money. And like I said earlier I think he's actually a good person, just immature. And he's clearly brilliant, able to remember a ridicolous amount of real world facts and specific details about real conspiracies and unusual events. But he's also finding patterns everywhere and connecting dots to everything. He's like that friend who always has to one up you on crazy stuff they know or has happened to you. And I can only handle that in small doses. Just too much noise.
 

Snuggles

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jul 19, 2015
2,794
5,084
0
44
Likely to get attention, be entertaining and make money. And like I said earlier I think he's actually a good person, just immature.
This seems to be a non sequitor. He’s throwing darts and then rationalizing them, as if the x-files is real life. People inevitably get sucked in and hurt themselves or others. It’s human nature, and it’s predictable. It’s been happening for millennia. Jones is happy to cultivate these emotions to satisfy his immature narcissism. He is therefore not a good person.

Humberto Eco is one of the clearest thinkers I’ve read, even if his writing is highly inaccessible. I couldn’t have made it through Focault’s Pendulum without the internet’s help with all of the obscure references and medieval conspiracy theories (I never knew that the Jesuits and the Masons each thought that the other group was trying to take over the world, or that the Rosicrucians existed). Much of Eco’s writing (I’ve read the above and The Name of the Rose), was describing the false logic of “patternicity” back in the 70’s and 80’s. The dude is legitimately brilliant, instead of being insane with a good memory.

The scientific method or deductive reasoning doesn’t necessarily mean that we start with the notion that each possible solution is equally plausible. We start with a hypothesis based on Occam’s razor. We take the most logical, simplest solution and test it. If it is false, we move on. Doing so does not mean that we necessarily reject all other possibilities, but we can place a priority on the most sensible until it is deemed untrue.

I’m quite sure that many of Jones’ facts are true and that some of his conclusions are true. It’s like the sports betting call in lines, though. Some will call in thinking that they might actually have “locks,” will get “lucky” (unlucky) three times, and will believe it’s real. Many of those callers are prone to gambling addiction. Bad outcomes ensue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bHero

Duke Silver

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Oct 29, 2008
48,688
41,422
0
I flipped through it to watch his demeanor and see if he was obviously reeling at any point. Didn't catch it yet - it's another 4+ damn hours of that man!

Those lawyers sound like douches. I might actually watch parts of this.
He appears very uncomfortable from parts I've seen.

P.S., lawyers are supposed to sound like douches in depos.
 

Duke Silver

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Oct 29, 2008
48,688
41,422
0
I flipped through it to watch his demeanor and see if he was obviously reeling at any point. Didn't catch it yet - it's another 4+ damn hours of that man!

Those lawyers sound like douches. I might actually watch parts of this.
He actually has some hilarious faces.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bHero

bHero

Member Who Talks (A Lot!)
Jan 19, 2012
36,831
44,519
0
Keller
barkingcarnival.fantake.com
He appears very uncomfortable from parts I've seen.

P.S., lawyers are supposed to sound like douches in depos.
I've been deposed before - I flipped to the 1 hour mark of the second one to see the end.

"You're the victim in this aren't you Mr. Jones?" <wanking motion>

If I was the firm planning on releasing this to the public to further nail Jones, I would had a different lawyer depose him. Maybe someone who didn't sound like a millenia goober snickering all the time and somone who's more of a joe jamil - monsanto "I'm about to f* you up" type.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TexasPalladin